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  • posted a message on Death's Shadow Jund
    Testing out the Incubate version of the deck (with some minor tweaks, mostly to Sideboard) and it definitely feels much faster but overall much weaker to interactive decks than we already are. And that's not somewhere I want to be. I've done ok against Phoenix decks and completely crushed Tron and Whir. The deck is so light on removal that it doesn't even feel like a midrange deck anymore. Makes me think more of the Suicide Zoo decks that just try to explode out of nowhere. The extra Grim flayers played a part in most of my wins which was nice. I was regularly attacking with 3 or so creatures by turn 4

    Inner Flame Acolyte felt awful every time I drew it. So far in 8 matches I haven't needed to Traverse for it or Ghor-Clan. The GDS match - up seems completely unwinnable so with that archetype on the rise I think I'll shelve this variation for now.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Death's Shadow Jund
    This guy is hilarious. But also the new take on the deck is very interesting. Playing all 4 Grim Flayer makes the deck feel way more aggressive.

    I'm skeptical of the Flame-Kin tech though because the haste isn't always relevant. And I feel like I'd play at least Watery Grave so you could cast Incongruity in those rare cases.

    How would a split card like this interact with Eidolon of the Great Revel?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Death's Shadow Jund
    Quote from user-26568169 »
    Hi guys, here two brief reports of the MKM Series Bologna my teammate and I attended last week.
    About 180 players, I ended 17th (6-2, no byes), my teammate Top 8ed (6-1-1, 2 byes).
    We both played 4c Traverse Shadow, plz find the list below:

    Brief opinion on the decklist: we both are Shadow players since the first decklists came up online more than 2 years ago. During these years we experimented all the different Shadow shells, going from 5c, to 4c, to Jund, grixis and esper. We truly believe Traverse shell is simply more powerful than Grixis brother (which obv is the most played shadow shell ATM) for some simple reasons (feel free to discuss). Main differences between the two shells are: Snapcaster Mage, Threat Density, Manabase Consistency, Grave hate, Tarmogoyf.
    1- A lot of people like playing Grixis over Traverse because of Snapcaster Mage. Snap is really a great card, but the Grixis shell played nowadays is the worst in taking advantage of Snappy: 17 lands and no KCom make us Snap for a cc1 spell only, so that the Snap is still a great card, but it’s not as strong as it used to be.
    2- Traverse is THE card: fixes our lands and gives us a threat. Sometimes grixis shell loses a lot of time trying to find a threat through Visions, Scour and Baubles. Here you can easily pay 1 to get a Shadow (obv, U must have delirium, but the was born to consistently make delirium).
    3- Grixis Shadow is more consistent than any other shell. Only 3 colors, 2 basic lands that covers the colors other than red. Sometimes it could happen that playing traverse u got stuck in hand spells that u can’t cast, we believe the manabase we played at tournament was really consistent, but we must say Grixis is better in consistency.
    4- The only card that kills us is Rest in Peace, but we can discard/counter it, and remove it too (trophy). Other grave hate cards (surgical, nihil, relic, Leyline) don’t really kill us, some of them are one-shot cards and some other still allow our goyfs to be big.
    5- Tarmogoyf is better than Gurmag Angler, no way out.

    Francesco Trogu’s Report: Top8 – Lost in quarterfinals
    Turn 1 – Turn 2: Bye (4-0 at MKM Trial on Friday, winning to Gtron, Scales, Spirits, Dredge).
    Turn 3 - Bant Spirits : 1-2
    G1 and G2 were straightforward, I won G1 doing what the deck it’s designed to: discard, fast shadow, temur battle rage. My opponent did the same in game 2. I lost g3 due to mana screw: I mulligan a one-land hand (forest) to find another one-land hand (forest again), I didn’t find the second land.
    Turn 4 – BG Midrange : 2-0
    G1: turn 1 discard, turn 2 discard, turn 3 Shadow with Stubborn backup. He didn’t find a double removal.
    G2: turn 1 discard, turn 3 Lili of the Veil, turn 4 Kcom killing bob and making him discard a card, I won as soon as I found a creature.
    Turn 5 – Affinity: 2-0
    G1 and G2: too many removals for him, he didn’t manage to play a champion, no way to win.
    Turn 6 – KCI : 2-1
    G1: turn 1 discard, then Shadow and stubborn on Krark-Clan Ironworks, Untap , Draw TBR.
    G2: my oppo started with a double Grove of the Burnwillows on the first 2 turns, EE killed my goyf and he managed to win a couple of turns later.
    G3: turn 1 discard, turn 2 goyf, turn 3 goyf + stubborn.
    Turn 7 – BR Vengevine : 2-1
    G1: easy win, Shadow and TBR.
    G2: easy lose, vengevine + 2 zombies on turn 2, no TBR.
    G3: really exciting, I kept a really strong hand, he doesn’t find Leyline in his opening. Turn 1 discard targeting looting, turn 2 goyf but I struggled to win cos of his several zombies. Time ended, judges called additional turns, at the 4th additional turn he had a double shadow and double goyf (5/6), I was at 10 and he was at 9, I had a TBR in hand, but he had 10 zombies. I drew Bolt and I swung for 16 with all my creats. He had to decide if safely blocks and didn’t risk to lose or do some double blocks and try to win the turn after. He went for the second choice, double blocking my goyfs and blocking my shadows with a zombie each, bolt targeting myself, I went to 7, TBR on Shadow and won.
    Turn 8 – I had the highest rating among 6-wins players and I drew.
    Top 8 - Mentor Phoenix: 0-2
    G1 at some point I was at 9 and I had to decide if cast a shadow and kill him the turn after, but expose myself to a double bolt and phoenix, or cast an IOK to shave an eventual bolt from his hand and slow down a turn, I went for the first, he drew a scour milling a phoenix drawing a bolt.
    G2 I played thoughtseize only, not a removal nor a threat.

    I was satisfied overall, the deck was really strong and I think I didn’t make any relevant mistake.

    Alessio Bergodi’s Report: 6-2
    Turn 1 – 4c Eldritch Evolution: 2-0
    G1: he played a double Voice of Resurgence, on turn 3 my board counted a goyf and 2 shadows, he tried an Evolution but stubborn gave me the win.
    G2: too many removals for me, he was stuck with 2 evolutions in hand without creatures to sacrifice.
    Turn 2 – Burn : 2-0
    G1: my oppo screwd stuck on one land for 2 or 3 turns, too much time for me
    G2: 2 stubborns on the last 2 bolts.
    Turn 3 – UWR : 1-2
    G1: I was forced to lose too many life casting seizes, he killed me with bolts.
    G2: too many threats for me, double goyf on t2 and t3 with a stub backup.
    G3: he managed to kill me at the last additional turn bouncing his snap with cryptic and killing me snapping bolt, I was at 3
    Turn 4 – Infect : 2-0
    Really good Matchup, pretty straightforward games, shadow, removal, tbr.
    Turn 5 – Vizier Company: 2-0
    G1: a couple of removals on his key creatures while swinging with a shadow, he didn’t find a chord.
    G2: oppo starting, land hierarch, go. Land finks go. Land Finks, go. Anger of the gods.
    Turn 6 – EldraTron: 2-0
    G1. Turn 1 discard on his chalice, then double shadow on turn 2.
    G2: He kept a really slow hand, I was really fast, too fast.
    Turn 7 – Grixis Shadow: 2-1
    G1: both turn 1 discard, I played a goyf and he found a push, I found a trophy for his angler then a traverse for a Shadow that he didn’t solved.
    G2: turn 2 gurmag and stubborn on my dismember. Than push on my shadow and gg.
    G3: We went to topdeck at turn 4 after some discards and removals, untap draw: lili of the veil, gg.
    Turn 8 – UR Phoenix: 0-2
    My rating was not that great, so I had to play.
    G1: my hand didn’t have a threat, but I Got a Lili. At some point he drew a looting and cast it, drawing and discarding double phoenix, I had no answer for such a play.
    G2: really slow game, I had 3 shadows but I was at 15, at some point I fetched and played a shadow, he killed it with an axe than played a surgical targeting shadow, emptying my hand. I didn’t find any answer for his phoenix + drake and lost.

    Ty for reading

    Thank you for the tournament outline. And great job, both dudes!

    My biggest take away here is that Stubborn Denial is still pretty important. Granted Defish and others have shown fine results in straight Jund colors, I personally don't forsee giving up blue any time soon. I'm gearing up for GP LA in one month and I expect a lot of Burn, Tron and Jeskai. I've played at a ton of Comp REL events all over Southern California over the last two years and those two archetypes are the most consistently played that I've seen. My biggest concern is Grixis Shadow because a lot of people seem to be picking that deck up lately, if online results are to be trusted that is.

    LOTV seems to be our best card in that match, but what other Sideboard tech could I consider? I really like Defish's Fulminator plan against them. The extra SB Mages could also pull double duty against both Primeval Titan and Tron.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Evolve Deck Shenanigans
    Quote from Rezzahan »
    No, this play is possible. What you are forgetting is, that evolve is a trigger as well, so it goes on the stack and doesn't do anything until it resolves, and only if the if-condition is true. So after Pongify has finished resolving, there are two waiting triggers, evolve and undying, and since they are both controlled by the same player, that player can put them on the stack in the order of his choosing. Thus it is possible to have undying resolve first, which brings back the creature, which triggers evolve again. And that evolve trigger is for the returned creature, and goes on top of the one for the 3/3 token. so the X1 can evolve for the 2/2 and then evolve again for the 3/3. In both instances, the if-condition is still true upon resolution.

    This makes sense. Thank you.

    I was wrapping my head too tightly around the fact that the 3/3 token most definitely enters the battlefield before the 2/2 Wolf, but that doesn't mean the Evolve trigger (triggered by the 3/3) can't wait to resolve until after the undying trigger resolving.

    So the biggest they can make Pelt Collector in this scenario is a 3/3 on turn two
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Evolve Deck Shenanigans
    Pelt Collector doesn't trigger from the Wolf being destroyed because it doesn't have greater power than him (yet)
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Evolve Deck Shenanigans
    I'm sure most modern players are familiar with a fringe rogue deck known as UG Evolve (or Simic Evolve) where they use creatures like Pelt Collector and Experiment One coupled with undying creatures like Strangleroot Geist and Young Wolf. Then they proceed to destroy their own creatures with Pongify and Rapid Hybridization to creature extra Evolve triggers. But there's something that doesn't seem right to me.

    There's a serious misplay I'm seeing happen in the first turns of the game. You play a Pelt Collector on turn 1. Then on turn 2 you cast a Young Wolf and then cast Pongify targeting that Wolf. I believe that once Pongify begins to resolve, the wolf is destroyed and it's Undying trigger will go on the stack, but that trigger cannot resolve until Pongify has finished resolving, creating the 3/3 token BEFORE the Wolf returns to the battlefield as a 2/2. Priority must be passed before the Wolf's undying trigger tries to resolve, so at that point the Pelt Collector should already have received it's +1/+1 counter from the 3/3 token.

    This is extremely relevant because the UG Evolve player is trying to stack their triggers so that the Pelt Collector gets two counters in that critical second turn, rather than only one. But I don't think that's correct.

    Please advise.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Death's Shadow Jund
    What are all your Trophies aimed at? 3x in the 75 seems excessive but i could be wrong. Also what match up do you foresee needing all 4x Fulminator Mage? I wouldn't count Tron because you don't need the 4th against them. Three should be more than sufficient. FM as a tool against GDS is interesting. You seemto be relying heavily on hitting your third land drop against them. Do you often Traverse for an early basic against GDS?

    Anyone catch the list with 3x Engineered Explosives? Check it out
    The guy is all-in with 3x TBR but then a Collective Brutality in the maindeck. Any thoughts?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Death's Shadow Jund
    I think the KCI ban will help us overall, because people who liked that deck will likely gravitate toward another degenerate deck such as Tron or Lantern which are embarrassingly easy for our archetype to deal with. Even the new flavor UR Phoenix is at least 60/40 for us if not better. What I don't want is more people picking up GDS, BGx, or UWx because those are more difficult.

    Regarding TBR and sideboarding: I almost always leave at least 1x TBR post board against just about any deck. For GDS it certainly depends who's on the play g2/g3 but we typically play more discards than them so it's entirely possible you'll just get the drop on them. I feel the same way about Stubborn Denial. Gurmag angler has been tough for me since I rely on Push and Burn for removal mostly. I think I'll start running LOTV back in the maindeck because she really does shore up the GDS face off quite a bit. I've been testing 1x and it feels like my best card against them by far. Maybe I'll try 2 or at least 1MB/1SB

    Also I would never board out Baubles. I played against an Infect guy once who said keeping my baubles was a mistake against him and it's better to side them out but I don't agree. If your GDS opponent feels he can shave some baubles and still be consistent with land drops, that's great. For Traverse Shadow it also counts as another card type which arguably the best aspect (for this archetype). It would far less likely to achieve Delirium by turn 2 without Bauble. Tarfire helps too though.


    In a recent list I saw a guy using 3x Engineered Explosives in his SB. Any idea what that's aimed at?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Death's Shadow Jund
    I've compiled a list of cards from RNA that might be interesting for us. I'm especially interested in the split cards with two card types (for obvious reasons). My thoughts:

    Repudiate // Replicate - The first half puts in work against almost any deck, even if it's just countering a fetch land. The second half helps if you can stick a threat. And then being two card types should be relevant also. But not the most mana-efficient card around.

    Collision // Colossus - Blast a flier out of the sky or act as a pseudo-TBR. The first half is probably a little over-costed to be useful. If it were 1-mana to shoot for 3 or 4 damage then I could definitely make a case for this card. As it is, I'm not so sure. What are the scariest things we could be targeting with the first half?

    Carnival // Carnage - Again we have two card types, and a a ping on the first half that can target planeswalkers. JTMS and Teferi are rarely dropping to 1 loyalty so I don't know how relevant this is against UWx and the second half is probably a bit underwhelming across the board.

    Cindervines - Defish brings up some good applications for this card, and it's an enchantment type so it likely puts tarmogoyf up to 7/8 status.

    Immolation Shaman - Could be useful if some sort of neo-pod vizier combo deck makes a comeback. But I guess we already have Harsh Mentor if needed.

    Amplifire - This is an odd card. To bring this in from SB as a singleton, could you basically churn it out to have huge power every upkeep (the smallest being a 7/9 from flipping a Street Wraith) but I don't know what match that would be useful for and if the 4 CMC is worth it.

    Spawn of Mayhem - Something to SB against UR Phoenix that can dodge their removal and block Phoenix. But I don't know if that match-up is particularly difficult for our archetype anyways (I never have trouble with them).

    Sphinx of Foresight - I know this card has been discussed in GDS as a tool to allow you to keep more opening hands. It's probably not realistically castable for even those splashing blue in Traverse shadow however. So it doesn't strike any chords for me (for this deck at least)

    Pteramander - This is probably one of the best cards of the whole set. Our multi-cardtype objective here is a bit prohibitive but I could see a list being tailored to support this thing. Personally this makes me wonder if Sultai Shadow finally has it's final piece to become competitive.


    So all that being said, I think likely none of these cards will likely make any showings for this archetype. Personally the only thing I'll actually be testing is a single maindeck Repudiate // Replicate and a single SB Cindervines.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Death's Shadow Jund
    I thought of Cindervines against burn as well. They have no outs for it (as they wont be boarding Revelry in against you) and it helps you race them really well. It can take out some scary threats in Bridge or Eidolon.

    KCI has a solid answer in EE but it does shut down their churning to find such answers. It seems good against Phoenix too as long as you get it online early enough.

    It's interesting to considerit against UWx because normally i wouldn't think this slow source of damage but the opportunity to takeout an Azcanta pre-flip or Detention Sphere is nice. They might not even cast DS if you've already landed a Cindervines
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Death's Shadow Jund
    I don't personally think it would be useful against anything but storm or KCI. Burn and Izzet will just bolt it. Tron and UW aren't particularly concerned because it's a slow source of dmg against them. This creature costs 3 mana which is considerable amount. Also requires RR which isn't always easy.

    I think most configurations of Traverse Shadow should have a fairly positive win percentage against both Storm and KCI so i wouldn't consider Scab Clan. Against Tron, UWx, and Phoenix there are far better options with more reasonable casting costs. To credit Defish, packing a few Fulminator Mages in SB will help much more against UW and Tron.

    Anyone taken a look at any of the new RNA cards as consideration for our Archetype?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Death's Shadow Jund
    GDS and UWx both have little to no way of interacting with Phyrexian Arena, which seems relevant. Jeskai specifically has burn+snap+burn so running too long off Arena could be risky against them.

    It's a card i honestly would've never considered. Thanks for the tip.

    Its worth mentioning that your approach seems to better navigate the pitfalls of midrange match-ups but how do you fair against linear decks? Storm should be cake for any Thoughtseize deck but what about phyrexian unlife decks or pyro prison? Or how about decks with mana efficient creatures or lots of fliers? Im specifically interested in your Humans and Spirits match-ups. What are some lines of play you recall working well for you against them? What struggles have you had?

    While i wouldn't consider either Humans or Spirits more difficult opponents than UWx or BGx, i would say that the former are far more prevalent in the meta than the latter. I think it's important to hedge for SB bets where you can realistically make up the most ground.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Death's Shadow Jund
    It would be really nice to watch those. Your sideboard tech would be especially helpful i think.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on 2018 - MTGS Cube Form Secret Santa Exchange! (Sign-ups due Dec 10th)
    Thanks to everyonefor participating!
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on 2018 - MTGS Cube Form Secret Santa Exchange! (Sign-ups due Dec 10th)
    Quote from TheGroglord »
    Right, finally my stuff arrived and I have stuck it into the post today so it should arrive with it's recipient sometime in the new year. Have only 2 package arrived so far?

    I believe yes, only my outgoing package and my incoming package have arrived so far
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
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