A New and Exciting Beginning
The End of an Era
Exclusive: Sword of Truth and Justice
  • posted a message on (Needs help!) Budget Mono Black Multiplayer Discard & Creature Destruction
    Quote from Prid3 »
    No one but you can have fun if you're playing a deck that wins on turn 2-3 and they're all playing decks that win on turns 10+. What you're doing is just so much better to the point where it trivializes their actions/decisions/cards. Nothing that they do actually matters; it's like watching one guy play Solitaire. Since Magic, like most games, is more about having a good time with your friends/other like-minded individuals it doesn't make sense to optimize these kinds of lists.
    Yeah, mainly I just wanted to build this to wipe some smug smirks off a few faces ;). We also draw fun in a sadistic, masochistic, and intentionally petty way, but I suppose there isn't a point in hyper-optimization because I'm already making some more "real" decks--real in the sense that they fit more in line with the stuff they've got. I just wanted to make it infuriating as possible before putting it behind a "In Case of Shmucks, Break Glass" case. lol Also, discard was a gap in their current meta, as in not already someone else's "thing".
    Quote from Prid3 »
    There's no way to say this without sounding conceited but it's the only answer that I can give. Given the choice of having everyone make decisions or everyone be subjected to RNG I'd always select the former because I feel as though I'm a better player/decision-maker than most other MTG players. Whereas I cannot use RNG to create a competitive edge for myself by forcing players to make as many decisions as possible, decisions I expect people to "get wrong" more than I will, I can grind out some % points that I would otherwise lose.

    With respect to "once my discard engine is in place," you've probably already won at that point. That's how these decks work. People either kill you or they get reduced to a spot where they can no longer win and there's very little wiggle-room in between.

    That doesn't really sound conceited to me. It's more like knowing your playgroup. For now, I'll stick with bottomless pit because I'm not as skilled a player as these guys, so I'd rather they be just as debilitated as me. There's also a small part of me that knows losing a random card will piss them off more than the ones they'd choose. PS - Started reading your other MP threads; that's some awesome work you did. Thanks!

    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on (Needs help!) Budget Mono Black Multiplayer Discard & Creature Destruction
    @Prid3, I think you actually just explained why I'm not getting the mana I was expecting: user error. I haven't been chaining into the next discard set--mainly due to being overwhelmed with all the cards and being a newer player--so I've been allowing them to drop what they're holding before I force another discard. Because of the turn 3, instead of turn 2 (I've only just now added gemstone and dark ritual) Most of them have hit their drops in the first hand, and I've been letting them hit the 4th drop because I don't force another discard on turn 3, missing out on all the lands they've just pulled after Dark Deal. Thanks! I'm a bit confused when you said that "Budget versions of the deck win on turn 3 and optimized lists seal the deal on 2 virtually every time. Those are not real numbers; that's just moronic." Could you clarify?

    In terms of the rest of what you said, yeah I agree. I just wanted something pretty solid as my first creation--something I can differ to when things get STOOPID at the table, but I'm working on other deck ideas now. Really want to thank you for the input! This thread probably coming to a close soon, but I just wanted to ask one last thing about Bottomless Pit vs Necrogen Mists. What makes Mists so much better in your mind? I understand that I'm playing a control build, and I need the right cards, but once my discard engine is in place and I have a ton of ways to draw, what's the harm in making them lose a random card instead of one they choose? Isn't it more likely that they'll try to hold onto the answer for the situation they're in? Once I play WN + a constant discard effect, I'm going to be up by two cards at least, so I feel like I'll be alright with taking the random hit, whereas they're in a jam, so they won't. What am I overlooking?

    @Cloudkick3r, I completely get where you're coming from in terms of the ambiguity of "budget", and I may at some point splurge for those cards, so your post was pretty helpful. Also, that deck list is beastly! I respect your love affair with Burning Inquiry--it's a zombie/mana/draw generator for just R. Do you usually win with Exsanguinate or your hoards of undead?
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on (Needs help!) Budget Mono Black Multiplayer Discard & Creature Destruction
    @Cloudkick3r Thanks, man. It definitely did!
    Quote from CloudKick3r »
    What sort of effects are you trying to stop with the Witchbane Orbs?
    It's more than mill--from one player's dumb Honden deck (discard/burn) to another players comet storm build, it just ranges. Funnily enough, I never really read the Eldrazi shuffle effect close enough to realize your entire graveyard was shuffled, not just the one card. So utility. Very annihilator. Wow. I've always wanted to play around with those cards, but the price tag is a bit too much for me atm. That'll probably change come February, but for now, budget it is!
    Quote from CloudKick3r »
    Another option you could consider testing if you want to protect yourself against more than just mill, and this assumes you have some decent lands to support it, would be to run white. Leyline of Sanctity has come down a lot in price and should remain a tournament staple for some time, so now could be a decent time to pick them up if they might also serve you in another deck/game setting at some point down the road. Starting with this in play for free some % of the time is better than having to get to 4 mana and spend it on an orb. But it does still feel like a "sideboard" card to me, unless your meta is really that chock full of player-targeting spells. Playing white does also mean you have access to the best targeted removal in the game in Swords to Plowshares, if that's any good in your meta. The upsides over Go For the Throat is that it can of course hit stuff like Wurmcoil Engine and Blightsteel Colossus all day. You could maybe even run a few Flagstones of Trokair to sac to your Smallpoxes, etc. Anyway, not sure it's worth going into another colour, but I'm just throwing out ideas.
    And they're all good ideas! My favorite suggestion is Flagstones of Trokair, and I'm wondering if there's a black equivalent. Why not white you ask? It's not that I'm not interested--in an earlier post I mused about the possibilities of white--but it's more of a budget thing for now; undoubtedly Leyline of Sanctity rocks Witchbane Orbs world, but not enough to justify the $$ presently, you know? Esp when I can fish out whatever the heck I want from my deck; when I drop a Dark Deal I'm pulling 20 cards easily, so it's not really an issue.

    In terms of Winter Orb, in part, it's just to be "that guy" to get a rise out of my friends, but it's also what Prid3 said, locking down the game when I've got the upper hand. Say I've got my discard and draw engines going. I don't really need lands to win. With Bottomless Pit/Necrogen Mists and WN/SA, I get stuff and they get the shaft. I'd like to play with more, but a) WHERE DOES IT FIT? b) they're around 5 bucks a pop nowadays, so I'd like to find a place for them before purchasing, and things are tight as is.

    One thing though, everyone keeps on talking about all the mana this combo will generate, but, honestly, I have not gotten it--even when I get DD off by turn 3. I'm usually facing 3 opponents, so does that change things? Has anyone actually played this combo before because I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong. I'll usually catch a stray mana from one unlucky sucker, but that's it. This is why I sprang for a few Gemstone Caverns.

    You also asked how Mindslicer is doing. I'd have to say pretty great. 5 mana gets rid of everyone's hand and everyone sacrifices a creature with Innocent Blood, and the trick is that I ALWAYS have what I need because I'm drawing, like... 20 or more cards off of spells plus the consistent discard. Because of this, Elixir of Immortality really has to stay.

    Delirium Skeins may actually take the place of a few Syphon Minds, as my draw engine is already pretty stupid, and I have to play something to win eventually, right?

    All that said, I'm still at a loss for making it all fit. I'll get there eventually though...
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on (Needs help!) Budget Mono Black Multiplayer Discard & Creature Destruction
    Again, thanks for the feedback! I got a chance to play a modified rendition of this deck with my group, and the result of the first game was... pretty fantastic; I got all the outrage and suffering I wanted from WN+DD, and I pulled out a win, but man were they pissed by game two. I had heard that discard players are usually targeted over other players, but WOW. Holy targeting, Batman! Creatures could not touch me, but I got hit hard by mill/burn. There are clearly some more adjustments I should make. Here's an updated deck list that includes much of the feedback I've received + some counters for problems I faced while playing this deck. It's not complete, as I'm over by two cards and would still like to fit in at least another Dark Deal, but here's where my brain is stuck:

    Another card I would have liked to include was Abyssal Gatekeeper, but there's just no room. Also, milling myself is a serious danger; with just one Waste Not I almost decked myself. I'm aware that I can forgo the draws provided by Geth's Grimoire, but it's hard to say no to EXACTLY what you need from your deck. Because I'll now be running with 4 Waste Not, I was considering removing Geth's Grimoire for two Witchbane Orbs, forgetting about Orb of Warding and leaving myself at 2 Dark Deal--at least for when I'm up against mill/burn. For whatever reason, this crew uses "Target Player" effects, so Witchbane Orb will probably get me pretty far...
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on "Unless an opponent chooses to" cards.
    @pyro1934, glad I got a laugh. Smile In terms of your decision, I respect it; honestly, my usual response to people suggesting color splashes is usually the same, "no, but maybe later? :p ". I only mentioned it because it seems to fit in with the same type of other-player-suffering niche. Hope your deck plays well!
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on (Needs help!) Budget Mono Black Multiplayer Discard & Creature Destruction
    Thanks to everyone who gave input on this (especially Prid3--was not expecting such a detailed response).

    Before anything else:
    Quote from Prid3 »
    That card is incredibly overrated. The only reason to field it would be if you were worried about Waste Not decking yourself. Otherwise you're just paying 3 mana to gain 5 life and that's not remotely playable. The math behind "stacking your deck with good draws" is way worse than it seems. In non-Waste Not versions of the deck I would never field them.
    Quote from Thijs1301 »
    Uhm... The Elixirs aren't that bad.
    If you draw/play a lot of cards the repeatable shuffle effect is the reason for playing it.
    The 5 live is just gravy.

    I think this depends on the meta of your table. I have no doubt that Elixir of Immortality will benefit me because...
    a)One of our players usually runs mill.
    b)I'll be discarding from my own hand after I incorporate Bottomless Pit or Necrogen Mists
    c)Most of our games span FAR beyond the "normal" length of magic games, and their decks are built to be massive in size to withstand that. Mine is not. Elixir is a band-aid for this.
    Yes, there are far better solutions to mill, but Elixir fits my needs for the time being. Perhaps later, I'll splash white for better burn/mill/creature protection via Ivory Mask Ghostly Prison Wrath of God Day of Judgment etc. but I'm not messing around with another color--for now.

    Okay, now...
    I'll likely go with Waste Not... We kind of play Magic to make each other suffer--to the point that I want to add a Winter Orb, and I'll get a good amount of satisfaction from blowing them up on turn 2-3. One problem is that I don't (yet) have any Gemstone Caverns. Does that make your planned combo less advantageous, or can I get away with 3 say...Dark Rituals? I own those right now. I'm going to put out an updated deck list very soon, but I have a few questions first.

    How does everything fit?
    With only 12 slots remaining in Prid3's initial suggestion, Where does that leave me with targeted removal, mass removal, creatures, constant discard and win conditions--other than the Waste Not combo? You've said that this deck doesn't need to win on turn 2, it just can. Is my only path to victory Waste Not? Do I lose the option to lock at 0 and bleed em' out?

    How good is Mindslicer?
    I like being able to drop him with Innocent Blood or any other creature destruction once I've got my pain set up, but does he bite me in the butt too hard? Is he too expensive for his effect?

    Tainted Aether, Lethal Vapors or none of the above?
    I love this type of strong control effect, but I have yet to test out it's effectiveness in multiplayer. My first thought is Lethal Vapors as people will be afraid to lose a turn in a multiplayer game, but, if they do skip, they'll avoid the turn-based damage brought by Wheel of Torture/Shrieking Affliction. Then I think of Tainted Aether combined with all those Smallpox. Are these cards overkill, considering I'm planning on including Noetic Scales?

    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on "Unless an opponent chooses to" cards.
    Do you like annoying your 'friends' with cards that aren't 'good', but still irritating? Then it's time to put Frankie Peanuts' big butt in YOUR deck. With your current "Hard Choices" build, you can ask questions like "If given the option, will you pay life/take damage this turn?" They won't know what they're agreeing to until it's too late. Act now, and we'll throw in Anger/Blur Sliver. Why? "If given the chance, will you accept damage this turn?" If they say yes, Master of Cruelties with haste. If they say no, you can Browbeat that B. As an extra benefit, you have the potential to issue your 'friends' cruel ultimatums--but not your Dad's Cruel Ultimatum. THIS CRUEL ULTIMATUM:
    Once you have your friend in a jam, ask "If I don't attack this turn, will you INSERT WHATEVER YOU WANT HERE!1!111?"

    Now you can find out just how important winning is to your pals. What a value! AND if you order within the next 24 hours, we'll also include suggestions to fill in the blank!

    Suggestions include:
    "buy me a beer?"
    "sing all of the lyrics to Come Sail Away?"
    "put this dirty sock in your mouth?"
    "say I'm a Floppy Fairy Binky Boy"

    All for the cost of 4 mana!
    Splash white today to get yourself some FriendAway!

    Disclaimer: LocketKey is in no way responsible for irreparable damage to friendships or physical/emotional damage inflicted upon you by your opponents.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Having Trouble Adjusting to New Playgroup
    I haven't been into Magic for too long, but that happened all the time to me when I played other TCGs as a kid because I moved a lot. It can be tough to find the right level of power to play casually with. I play magic with a 'retired' tournament champ now and a few other guys who are way more experienced than me, and their solution was to play decks WAY above 60 cards--this leads to long, fun games that don't usually have aggressive turn-two win combos. Instead, they focus on long building epic battles. Think of all the cards you'll get to play, and all of the shenanigans you'll get to pull in that kind of format. If they're opposed to this tower-of-power kind of play, maybe just limit yourself to 80 or even 100 cards instead of 60 and see what you can create--what you can get away with?
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on (Needs help!) Budget Mono Black Multiplayer Discard & Creature Destruction
    Thanks for the advice, man! Very helpful, and I do think most of your changes are objectively better in terms of success rate. I absolutely LOVE what you do with Gemstone Caverns/Waste Not, and I hadn't thought about using 7/7/6 to search for a specific hand. My first thought is why only two Noetic Scales? My instinct tells me to operate with a full playset, but you obviously don't see this as worth it. Any particular reason?

    My second comment is a bit more complicated and has more to do with the current table's meta. The dudes I play with have thrown together massive decks with the intention of playing long games--hence why I included two Elixir of Immortality. My fear is that by playing such an aggressive turn 2 win with little lategame potential is going to either aggravate them to the point where I won't be able to play this deck very often, or (far more likely) our groups' meta will change so that two turn win combos are the norm--which seems less fun. I didn't really realize that this was a constraint until I saw your badass decklist, which... presents me with an interesting problem I suppose.

    Definitely buying 4 Gemstone Caverns, and I'll probably put 4 Waste Not/Dark Deal in my sideboard for when I just want to win--or if one of them decides to play with a faster deck--but for now let's say I want things to hit at least turn 5. One of the main reasons I was attracted to discard was the idea of a long, frustrating path to defeat for my friends. To revise my initial statement, I'm now looking for an annoying, draining path to victory. Say I want a Shrieking Affliction, Wheel of Torture, Quest for the Nihil Stone type of victory--a bleed em' dry build full of frustrating cards like Noetic Scales.

    You had said that Shrieking Affliction was much better than other similar cards. Why do you feel this way? Any suggestions on how effectively lock my opponents at 0 cards while still retaining serious card advantage?
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on (Needs help!) Budget Mono Black Multiplayer Discard & Creature Destruction
    Ohh, Abyssal Gatekeeper will have a home in this deck, maybe in place of Liliana's Caress. Thanks! I feel you with Painful Quandary. Right now, I feel it will help close out games that have been all but locked down, but I agree that the cost is too high for this card to really see some action. It's the kind of thing that I'll probably take out once it screws me enough times. Thanks for the tip with Prid3. I checked out the post and it gave me a lot to think about. I'll be staying away from Ensnaring Bridge for now because I like the card advantage provided by Syphon Mind and Geth's Grimoire, but I'll definitely be using Noetic Scales to replace Barter in Blood. I'm also thinking of cutting one Doom Blade, the Dark Deal, and both Noxious Toad for 4 Smallpox because I love the two-for-one. If I did that, I'd probably lose Lethal Vapors for two more Tainted Aether;Lands will be harder to come by, and players will be less likely to sacrifice them.

    Do these seem like good changes?
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on (Needs help!) Budget Mono Black Multiplayer Discard & Creature Destruction
    Wow! Didn't know Noetic Scales existed. Thanks! I'll probably put in at least two of those instead of Tainted Aether or Lethal Vapors. I do have Waste Not, but my issue with it is the order in which things happen. I've found that I draw cards like Liliana's Caress when my opponent is already topdecking.
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on (Needs help!) Budget Mono Black Multiplayer Discard & Creature Destruction
    I'm pretty new to the Magic scene, and this is my first deck help post, so please don't kill me.

    I've been doing chaos games with a group of friends (3 to 4 players) who have played since--geez, I don't even know, but I don't have a card collection that could hold a candle to theirs'. Usually I'll play with their FAT decks--over 100 cards in some of these crazy towers they like to screw around with. The usual meta breaks down like this: one dude runs with a green/blue Eldrazi deck. One plays Mono White with luminarch ascension and removal such as oblivion ring and journey to nowhere. The last guy--the one who paid for a few semesters of college with his magic tournament winnings--runs with either an artifact deck with all the good stuff or this evil stack of irritating mill cards.

    Now I'm trying to build something that can contend in this no-banned-cards format. I decided to stick to 60 cards because a) I don't want to need to buy a million cards for one deck and b) I don't see the benefit in not getting to draw what you want--other than mill defense I guess?

    Here's what I came up with:

    I haven't tested this out, but I already fear it has problems. Should I include direct answers for luminarch ascension ? Are there affordable cards that will protect my enchantments? Is my win condition reasonably achievable in a four/five player game?

    Any help greatly appreciated!
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on Josh: Hardcore Gamer, Writer, & Free Speech Advocate
    Hi all,

    I'm Josh. I'm a writer with a dedication to free speech advocacy and a gaming enthusiast (board, card, video, RPGs etc.) I'm pretty new to Magic--been playing for less than a year with some seriously obsessed friends, and now I'm obsessed too. My first DCI experience was a few prerelease events for Origins which I really liked--despite getting my butt kicked. Hard. Every Friday, my friends and I now play a ton of kitchen table games where we smoke drink etc. Usually I'll use their decks because I don't have nearly as many ridiculously high-powered legacy cards, but now I'm looking to build my own decks, preferably on a budget, and that's hard considering what I'm up against. I also want to become a better player. I've lurked on some threads here for deck advice, and now I've decided to actually join the conversation.

    Nice to meet you all!
    Posted in: Introduce Yourself
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.