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  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    Quote from idSurge »
    We will have data though, easily enough to infer what is competitive, optimal, or just 'viable'.

    You cannot look at 5-0s but SCG Top 16, Day 2s, Modern Classics, Modern Online Challenges (especially) and GP Top 16s are all meaningful data if you wish to metagame for Online or larger competitive events.

    I've done it, it's fine.

    It's not worthwhile for FNM.

    What data is going to even matter?

    Ehh I guess. I'm just more sick of people saying things are fine and healthy, when they have not been for quite a while.

    At least the nice thing about MTGO is that since I don't waste my money on Leagues, I have no qualms with right click -> concede match every few pairings. When I don't have to actually play against those rancid abominations, many of the games are almost fun.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    We will never have data. WOTC doesn't want us to have data because it allows us to quantify our horrid experiences on MTGO and competitive FNMs. Without data, people can just hand-waive those experiences away as flukes, and sell the idea that everything is fine and healthy because, who are we to say otherwise? What do we know? We don't have any meaningful data or proof.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    Quote from gkourou »
    Plus FoN will make it more fair.

    That is tremendously optimistic, given how powerful and prevalent creatures are to Modern. Negate does not solve any meaningful problems, even if it's "free" (only free on opponent's turn, costs you a card, card needs to be specifically blue).
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    Quote from gkourou »
    Wizards has to act somehow, because the upcoming PT will be a mess.

    Why? They have said numerous times that this is healthy. They're flatly wrong, but that's at least what people who run the format, and don't play the format, believe.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    Quote from ed06288 »
    But yeah, I did enjoy the format more when there was less graveyard decks running around.

    Me too. I also enjoyed it when people were rewarded for playing with their opponent instead of at them, through them, or ignoring them. But I guess those days are long gone and never coming back. Frown
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)

    Neoform Combo is a glass cannon like many others. I mean, we already had Griseshoalbrand and Belcher, it is more extreme, but certainly not a ‘good’ deck.

    As I said in my previous post, Neoform itself isn't the problem, it's the fact that Neoform is symptomatic of the larger problems in Modern. Your choices to be competitive are to play something linear/prison lock, or accept that your deck is fundamentally worse than linear/prison decks and be fine with not winning as much.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    Quote from The Fluff »
    Question: how exactly does Hogaak Vine mill out people?

    With Altar in play, you sac your own creatures to mill yourself and Bridge makes a Zombie for each. Do that enough to be able to Delve/Convoke out Hogaak. Sac Hogaak to mill yourself, and repeat this loop until you get buncha bridges in yard and zombies in play. Once you have 30+ zombies in play, sac them all to Altar to mill opponent for 60+.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    The issue isn't just Hogaak, it's the repeated and continued trend of all decks to become linear degeneracy or prison locks. Neither of which are particularly fun or engaging for either side of the table most of the time. But rather than all come at once, like Eldrazi Winter, it's been a slow and steady drip over the past year or so.

    What decks, of the top decks, are actually fun to play against? Or does that simply not matter anymore, because it's better to either ignore, play through, or lock out whatever the opponent is doing? Making them an irrelevant inconvenience instead of an active participant in the back and forth of engaging gameplay?

    I ask this because last night I had the most Modern of Modern moments. It was my first time playing Neoform in paper and game 1 I lost decisively due to keeping a proactive hand that couldn't kill them faster than they could kill me. Game 2, I turn 1 Thought Scour them on the play, mill over a Laboratory Maniac, and they immediately concede. Game 3, I have Spell Pierce and Path to Exile in my opening hand, but no immediate threat. He waited until 4 lands to put Allosaurus Rider into play and Eldritch Evolution it away. I Pierce, he exiles Simian Spirit Guide plus his land in play to pay for it. At this point Path isn't even good enough as he draws his whole deck (which includes Pact of Negation) and wins. Welcome to Modern. This is "healthy." This is "fun."
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    Quote from WizardMN »
    [2 weeks ago, you bitched about MrTouzlis reducing all of your comments to thinly veiled attacks on the banning of Twin. Perhaps you had a right to be upset about that but this comment suggests they had a point. While I appreciate that your comment here is explicit about being about Twin, not every thing needs to include Twin.

    I mean, you complain about people viewing you as the "unban Twin" player and people reading your comments within the context of Twin, but then you post something like this. Whether Twin was a bad ban or not is irrelevant at this point. You have made your case (as have others) but this article doesn't need to be about Twin. Our responses to it can be a legitimate discussion over what these answers mean or what we can (or can't) expect based on them for the format as a whole. Interjecting Twin has no relevance to that article, nor to any discussion that should result from it, and there is no reason to bring it up except to remind people you are still upset.

    It'd just be nice to see some consistency. Twin isn't the only bad ban, in fact Stoneforge is laughably worse. It's made extra silly when some new graveyard abuse breaks the format every few months.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    Quote from isei »
    Power level: Does the deck have a high win percentage? Is the card/deck significantly more powerful than anything else in the surrounding format?

    Does it have a high metagame share?
    Sometimes the power level of a deck is reasonable, but the deck still is played more than anything else. This was true of energy decks during Kaladesh Standard where we found the win percentage at a reasonable level, but it was played much more than anything else.

    Is the deck fun to play against?
    Are there enough answers to it? This was true of the last Modern banning of Krark-Clan Ironworks. This card met many of the other criteria as well, but it was also very unfun to play against and hard to interact with.

    What is the community feedback?
    Do players actively dislike the card/deck? Are players no longer playing the format?[/i]

    I feel like I would just be banned again if I gave my honest opinions about these statements. So let's just say that I hope one day they choose to apply these views retroactively. Specifically with regards to fun to play against and are there abundant and broad answers, in addition to several pieces of targeted hate with other multiple applications.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    Quote from BlueTronFTW »
    Ah, you underestimate how many of us enjoy degenerate garbage. I get to go to SCG Pittsburgh in a couple weeks, imagine what that'll look like? Glorious, glorious garbage.
    I mean, if you can't beat em, join em. I'm Looting Birds into play and flipping Things, then blanking all incoming sideboard cards games 2 and 3. GOTCHA. Doesn't mean the games are necessarily intriguing, interesting, engaging, or fun.

    As much as many people here hate Hoogland, he has a great take from a recent video: "If you aren't playing some busted Looting or Stirrings deck, then play whatever you like; it doesn't really matter. Who am I to tell you your pet deck isn't pretty? Magic has enough variance in it that literally anything can win."
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)
    Quote from Nyzzeh »
    Or just don't play until the 8th cos this format is not worth our time with such a broken deck warping the whole format.

    "Don't play until the next B&R announcement" seems to have been the go-to line for anyone complaining about Modern for nearly the past year. How long do we "wait for the next announcement" before giving up entirely? Or are we so financially and emotionally invested, that we just keep on playing, even though games are awful and the format is full of degenerate garbage?
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from idSurge »
    My only concern BlueTronFTW, is that the set isnt opened enough because of Core 2020 getting fully spoiled NEXT WEEK.

    I just worry its going to pull away from this set getting cracked as much as it would, keep the prices higher than anticipated.

    If we hit $15 on Fiery Islet, I probably pull the trigger on a few at least.

    Yeah I don't know if it's worth it for any more than that. With so many cantrips already, and taking a damage every time with no pain-free colorless option (like Shivan Reef), I can't really see me ever running more than 1 in any deck I play (if any).
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=22176&d=350108&f=MO

    https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=22007&d=348539&f=MO

    This was my search from 5-1-19 to 6-14-19. Surely this can't be the only reason, outside of a buyout, that Teferi's Puzzle Box spiked? Odd to me. I guess it's more speculation of what it does with Narset, Parter of Veils more than someone actually going out and getting results that show up on mtgtop8?
    It was also recently shown on an SCG head to head, which was shown between matches on the SCG Con, I think. It looked real good against Phoenix in a UW shell. But again, it needs something else to stay alive and something else to win the game. So it's a combo that takes a bunch of slots that doesn't keep you alive and doesn't win the game on its own.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Do you have a deck list for a list with Teferi's Puzzle Box? I saw the card spike a bunch and I was curious as to what it is being played in specifically. (In addition to a buyout of course.)

    The other option is I can probably type Teferi's Puzzle Box in mtgtop8 and see what deck lists pop up.
    I'm currently shoving her into a Blue Moon list. Mostly because I haven't bought the other cards needed to build UW on MTGO. But I imagine she would do fine in a UW list with board wipes, Colonnades, Jace/Big Teferi, or some other slow grindy wincon that doesn't require keeping cards in hand. It's been OK. Some great games against jank and fair/interactive decks. Not good enough for me to play in paper in a real "top tables modern meta" though.

    Edit: I should add that I have boxes in paper as well (the same 7th ed ones, because I love classic artifact frames), but testing online has told me there's no reason to fight uphill battles for a meme lock when I can just kill people with Birds and Things.
    Posted in: Modern
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