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  • posted a message on Blitzkrieg - B/R Control - Shock and Awesome

    https://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/49777-the-end-of-an-era

    The end of MTGsalvation.
    To Conclude on July 8th

    Blitzkrieg - 1,300 posts and nearly a 200,000 views. To be archived for future views, but no longer can we chirp in as new cards get printed -- hope beyond hope that B/R Discard || Heavy Tanks can one day become premier deck material.

    It's a sad day for the whole community. I know so many of us have benefited from the collective game enrichment and fellowship here at MTGsalvation.

    Wow. We lost a titan today. Perhaps our greatest achievement was SmashPacMan getting a Top 8 in a large tournament 4 years ago PAIRED with Demigod of Revenge build winning a 1K in Florida which got a deck spotlight by Frank LePore. I had a pile of FNM wins and 12th place in Massachusetts States. But, unfortunately 2-for-1 discard started losing ground to fast/linear/redundant decks years ago.

    We'll continue on until July 8th. Special petition: if anyone sees or intuits a winning list for Rakdos Karn BLITZKRIEG, I'd love to see it. And, all thoughts about Blitzkrieg past and present are encouraged to be shared in these final weeks.

    If you're ever feeling nostalgic or looking for a spark of inspiration in the coming years, flip through some of these old pages. Who knows - maybe one day B/R Discard can get some serious traction.

    THE FINAL CHAPTER
    Well, we haven't had much activity here in years, there were the good times & we still sport one of the most badass art banners you've ever seen. So, hearty backslaps to all. See you around the next battlefield.

    -Raystack
    Ray Karkman
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    https://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/49777-the-end-of-an-era

    The end of MTGsalvation.
    To Conclude on July 8th

    Pyro Prison - 164 pages and nearly a 1/4 million views. To be archived for future views, but no longer can we add wisdom to the campfire gathering.

    It's a sad day for the whole community. I know so many of us have benefited from the collective game enrichment and fellowship here at MTGsalvation.

    Wow. We lost a titan today. The good news is that our sister site, Discord - Pyro Prison Channel, is growing and becoming more refined with each day due to the noteworthy efforts of our Veterans.
    Pyro Prison - Goblinized Mono-Red Control || The Sideboard Deck

    Perhaps our greatest achievement was becoming the 73rd deck in all of competitive Modern archetypes to be recognized by MTGsalvation as 'ESTABLISHED'. Shortly thereafter, with Fluffywolf's help, I successfully petitioned MTGtop8 to also use the name Pyro Prison. Starcitygames and Channelfireball later followed suit. We are now legal tender, mountainfolk.

    We'll continue on until July 8th, kin. I'll constantly update my premier decklists for 'Classic' and 'Karn' at the bottom of the Official Primer (I'm particularly pleased with my Karn list right now). Special petition: if anyone sees or intuits a winning list for Rakdos Karn Pyro Prison, I'd love to see it. And, all thoughts about Pyro Prison past and present are encouraged to be shared in these final weeks.

    Good News: the Discord Channel is thriving and becoming more refined every week under the leadership of Fluffywolf and Cashewlol with a panel of moderators soon to be announced - maybe you'll recognize at least 1 face Tongue The Discord Channel has some real advantages with the real-time interactivity in conversation. If you haven't yet, join in. The place is positively electric with ideas and enthusiasm and best of all: Winning Reports!

    If you're ever feeling nostalgic or looking for a spark of inspiration in the coming years, flip through some of these old pages. Thar' be some gold in these hills. Those who have read every page of this thread have told me that it's like reading a novel. Even though you know how it ends, it's fascinating to see the development of the deck - ideas championed or ignored at player's peril or success.

    Indeed, the storybook nature is captured brilliantly with the permanence of the writings here. Knowing that one's thoughts were being logged and catalogued for(ever) really inspired the contributors to carefully craft their contributions. For instance, light that fireplace up, lean back in your chair, and flip back a few pages in this storybook to 2016...

    GREATEST HITS
    Here's One: A fan fiction tale of Pyro Prison that blends a tournament report with the storyline of Star Trek II the movie:
    The Wrath of Koth

    https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/663335-pyro-prison-goblinized-mono-red-control-the?comment=2819

    THE FINAL CHAPTER
    I don't have the words...heh, you all know that's not true - with this being the 3,456th post - but let's just say that words can't say enough. Yeah, that's it - Words can't say enough. So, huzzah & hearty backslaps to all. It may only be a game, but we did something special here. And now? The mountain path continues on a different site. See you around the next rising ridge.

    -Raystack
    Ray Karkman


    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    All that said, none of what I said can be considered etched in stone. Magic has a lot of variance. No one card is the correct solution upon it's singular selection. It's all part of a assemblage.

    • Siege-Gang Commander only makes sense as the 9-10th goblin.
    • Goblin Cratermaker only makes sense as the 3-4th abrade.
    I did say the term 100%. But, that's not a fair assessment --- never can be in this game. For instance, I've already moved away from Grafdigger's cage counts in favor of an extra Anger of the Gods in the sideboard. Also, I miss the Ratchet Bomb slot there. It's the eternal struggle. It's also why I have always been averse to drafting up a strict 'Sideboard Guide'.

    >>> Take this option for example:
    + Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin
    (+) 2nd Pyretic Ritual

    That's where I am right now........now Rolleyes
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    • Slagstorm has always been an all-star. I was its biggest advocate for years - it's quintessential Pyro Prison. UNTIL, we hit 8-Rabble. IF we initially draw a Slagstorm in our starting 7, then we can sculpt our play. But, if we top deck it, as we are trying to develop a swarm kill, then it's far more useless. Note: it no longer can redirect to a planeswalker for damage.
    • Big loss as it now either serves as a lightning bolt to an opponent's melon OR as a sweeper, but -again- it kills all of our Goblins. Whereas, Bonfire can both kill a planeswalker and sweep a board without destroying our own side of the battlefield. Also, Bonfire is far easier to dump down in the event that you need to turtle up on a bridge. Those are (3) significant advantage points. 2 of which have become far more valuable in recent months.
    • Siege-Gang Commander is one of those cards that 'turns a corner' faster than any other goblin. If you untap. Then you you can attack for 5 & goblin gun for 6 = 11 damage. That's the most modest expectation. That's not a dismissal of P&K. It's just the opposite. It's a respect for The Parents and their closing speed for a win --- now, I'm investing the extra colorless mana upon casting.
    • Walking Ballista is the perfect filler card - a little of everything. But, almost never 'overwhelming'. This list is looking to pick a side and go hard on its motif.
    • Cavern of Souls is not an overwhelming card either. If there's a principal concern about U/W, then simply play our original beater: Mutavault. Trinisphere is better manifested as a Damping Sphere. DS limits low-curving decks from 'going off' and it destroys Tron. A late drawn Trinisphere is a wicked disappointment, whereas a Damping Sphere can rally back against an exhausted opponent's hand who might be left hell-bent.
    • Welding Jar is just too narrow. It was almost never see in traditional Pyro Prison, so the case is easily made for spellskite in this slot.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    MTGO Competitive Modern League: 5-0


    Round 1 - Burn
    Round 2 - RUG Wizards Stompy
    Round 3 - Humans
    Round 4 - Affinity
    Round 5 - Infect


    Am I 100% on this design? Yes. Yes, I am. It's finely tuned for today's meta: Humans, Tron, U/W Control, Arclight Phoenix, and Dredge. Further, the slots in both the mainboard and sideboard ignore some matchups which are already favored (GDS/Infect/Phoenix) and hit with smashing force against the tougher decks (Humans/Tron/U-W).

    OUTLIER REMOVAL SPELL SELECTIONS
    One particularly unusual addition is Bonfire of the Damned. Too often Slagstorm was self-defeating or Anger of the Gods was a blank - so Zero traditional sweepers in the maindeck. Now, Bonfire is never a blank, and it finally gives us a way to target Planeswalkers again. With little draw in the deck, it's safe to say that it will be the '1st card drawn' enabling Miracle. || Another bold addition is Dismember. I saw a couple in Pascal Classen' Top 8 list, and I'm following his lesson. Despite the heavy cost, its impact is worth it. Particularly against an early Noble Hierarch or Thalia.

    THE CANNONBALL
    Siege-Gang Commander. Goblins all over creation, thus the bringing back of my original name for '8-Rabble outfitted with On-a-Stick spells' (like Goblin Cratermaker) Goblin' Gun. This dude is a 4-for-1 at a minimum. Caligula overlayed the Karn Package onto an 8 Rabble Stock List of Pyro Prison, and I'm turning this one up to 11. Yup, where I was once trying to sculpt a more elegant construction of synergies, now I am counting upon plentiful & consistent hammer blows of goblinized machinations.

    LANDS
    Mutavault - hey that's another goblin! Blast Zone for random clean-up since I'm light on sweepers & Zhalfirin Void to assist with dig in a deck that has never tried harder to be "The Sideboard Deck".

    SIDEBOARD
    Torpor Orbs abound and a special effort was made to shut down decks that exploit greedy land bases/tron land bases. The overall approach is one of a 'silver bullet' arsenal. The threats are all front-loaded into the mainboard.

    100% -- It's a culmination of so many styles of Pyro Prison that we have collectively mined and crafted. We all share in this 5-0, and I predict more to come....

    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    New Silver!
    But, not a finalized deck list just yet - another prototype


    DECK UPDATES
    I have been making alterations with each league that I've joined. The first cards to be cut from the original list were Tormenting Voice and Collective Defiance. Those cards, alongside Faithless Looting, provided the acceleration/dig that I was pursuing. They're basically 'place holders' for cards not yet approved to join the line-up. There is still a little jiggle left, so the Faithless Looting remains. I am not 100% settled on this list.

    8 RABBLE vs. ACCELERATED MANA/DRAW
    What I discovered is that the original concept of 8 Rabble by Caligula is more effective, despite the gear shift to Karn/Lattice, than I suspected. Bottom line: pressure. Present a clock. I have already upped the Warboss count to 3 in future lists, and 4 may be the wiser choice still. 8 Rabbles work so terrifically in concert when they hit the board in multiples - that argument is self evident.

    PLANESWALKERS & LOCKS - LANDS/RITUALS
    No matter how much I test, the original formula is still the best: 21 Lands and 9 Rituals. With Karn, it looked like we could go 'Big Red' and load up on a high ramp with more rituals/land, draw-loot, and just slam a game changer before an opponent knows what hit them. The reasoning was sound, but what looks good on paper doesn't always play out correctly on the battlefield. And, hey, it's not as if it was a flop -- just bold.

    So, with a more traditional mana scheme, the 4-cmc drops had to be cut back. Chandra is down to 2. The Locks saw the 4th Chalice get put back in the main. How often, if you need a chalice, do you prefer to get 1 through a 4-cmc expense? Rolleyes

    REMOVAL
    Again, there is a lot of variety. Not just the typical 2-3 Anger/Slags in the main. I'm trying 1 Anger, Chainwhirler, and Blast Zone MD and 2 Anger and 1 Ratchet Bomb SB. Testing continues here. The abrade count in the main deck may rise to 4 with a liquimetal coating main deck. There's a lot of flex in this area of the deck.

    THE PUZZLE
    Humans? Torpor Orb. I'm going over the top. Three. This speaks to what DuceMc brought up, and what we've all been trying to solve: when do you pull cards in from the sideboard that you know you'll need, and when do you leave them there and hope you can Wish them. One way to answer that is multiples. (3) Torpors and (2) Grafdiggers. As for Humans, a torpor is so damned critical that I'm willing to sleeve up that many.

    As for Duce's questions about what a good hand looks like and how much do you want to mull? It's not all that different from traditional Pyro Prison. The new element is Karn. But, I always hope for an early Moon/Chalice first and foremost. Then, Bridge/Rabble as a 2nd deployment. Now - Karn or Chandra as the 3rd up-at-bat.


    NEXT 3.0 VERSION UPDATES
    I'll likely drop the Chainwhirler (especially since I just went up to 3 T-Orb), and add a 3rd-4th Warboss. Somehow, I'd love to squeeze in the 4 Abrade/1 Liquimetal package into the main deck. DATA ANALYSIS - has been coming from my own leagues and looking at other Karn lists getting published. Mycosynth Lattice is exploding, and there is a lot of info out there to soak up.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    I updated the Official Primer to include mention of Karn, the Great Creator. Is liquid metal a superior killing machine? Seems so at the moment. Who can argue with Fluffywolf taking Caligula's list (+ a few tweaks) and jamming down a 19-1 record in MTGO competitive play?

    Of course, there is always room for improvement, and maybe a shift into a different theme of KARN Pyro Prison. @Butterynugs - welcome back! - flexed in the direction of land destruction off of main-decked Liquimetal Coating and Molten Rain. Fascinating idea. And, @FraktheGods going well past the simple addition of silver and bringing in 2 other colors Hooray!

    I find the contributions of Marulo particularly engaging. Only your 3rd post in Salvation, and you have a very strong handle on Pyro Prison and how it has TWO primary conflicts integrating Karn into 8-Rabble:

    1.) As I wrote earlier, the 'off-axis' shift of executing an 8-Rabble assault into a non-board state changing 4-cmc Planeswalker that ultimately wins with a 6-cmc artifact. Seems a tad askew. But, the design is effective: EITHER win with a swarm or exhaust your opponent's resources, and then win with a 'wished out' lock. Of course, there are times where an early-mid game explosive move into a timely traditional power lock against your opponent might be just enough to shut them down.
    2.) Games 2 and 3: What do we sideboard in and what do we leave in the sideboard with hopes that it can be located with Karn later? This provides a new dimension to sideboarding, and it ain't easy. I guess the simplest way to think of it is that the needed early drops can come into the mainboard, like a 4th Chalice or Spellskite or Spyglass or a single Torpor Orb. But, what about when you are also considering taking out Karns?? Then, do you abandon the whole 'wishboard' and try to go traditional Pyro Prison?

    PUZZLE: Humans. Whatever happened to our favored matchup against Humans? Friggen' detention dude is what happened. Alright, but whining aside, how do we Karn Sideboard/Wishboard against Humans? My problem has been that I end up with very limited win conditions against them, and I am ultimately attempting to do a Turn 1/2 Chalice/Moon double-slam for the win.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    I wrote in years past that if Pyro Prison ever becomes a college course, Fluffy will be the professor.

    Now, he’s writing the book on it.





    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    Rarely have we heard so much debate on topic of LAND COUNT: 21 or 22 or 23?
    Rituals - Lands - 4-CMC Count....

    Where once Pyro Prison was a 'Tale of 2 Decks' and the hope to not draw the Wrong Half was a real concern (Aggro/Control or maybe a total whiff on 'Hot Air' cards like Rituals only). Now?

    Now, it's totally fractured due to Karn. I can not emphasize it enough: Dig/Loot/Scry. The win is only 1 drawn card away.

    Easiest way to start with an 8-Card hand?
    Zhalfirin Void

    Look at this Opening Hand.
    Would you Keep it?
    Would you Keep it if the Z-Voids were Mountains?
    Or Scavenging Grounds/Cavern of Souls/Blast Zone.....

    No. The ONLY reason this hand is keepable is Z.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    Cue the Music!
    "When you wish upon a Karn...."
    you usually win

    That's certainly been the trend lately. Caligula did his 8-Rabble Karn list, and then joined MTGO for the first time. Despite some user/clerical errors in interfacing since he's brand new, he is slamming down 4-1s. I've got a few with varying versions, and Fluffy did a few minor tweaks and erupted into a 15-0 run on Competitive Modern MODO. Outstanding.

    How can one even dare to tinker with a list that is seemingly already perfect? Well, right from the outset, I saw a different path. And, there was friggen' trash strewn all over it along with footprints from a....dragon. Couldn't be! Yup, 'Trash Dragons' fly again! Here's my list from 6 months ago:

    Trash Dragons -- No Littering? Ain't nobody got time for that! This deck is pretty far from 'green'. Red is rummage, scry, loot, discard, and exile. This deck runs hard ritual counts and a very high 4-cmc ramp since those cards are the most impactful - note the use of Z. Void in the land count. This deck is terrific at locating and deploying threats at a high expense of card economy. That can be excellent against unfair decks, but terrible against counterspell or fair decks since they will punish you for being light on threats. Nonetheless, this might be the most fun Pyro Prison deck to pilot.


    So, what's the big idea? Streamlining.
    • Filter/Loot
    • Mana Acceleration
    • 4 Rabblemasters only
    • Top Heavy CMC Mana Ramp
    Find and deploy the right tool for the job as fast as possible, and recycle the redundant/unneeded cards into win conditions. Whereas 8-Rabble plows ahead on a linear line of a swelling horde - often shifting a resource burst into a power lock along the way - Trash Dragons runs a very threat-light build, but explodes faster and digs deeper.

    When I saw Karn - Toolbox, pardon me: 'Wishbox'. I saw a greater advantage to the concept of Hot Air. The real disadvantage with Trash Dragons is when you draw too many 'turbo arrows' on the racetrack, but not enough meaningful spells. This refers to Hot Air: Rituals and Looting Spells. But, with Karn, I can always have the perfect sideboard card for the next turn (and, if he doesn't die, another turn as well). Like Chandra, he is an adaptable X-for-1.

    Well, did the theorizing prove successful? It did. Not 15-0 successful, and it's still evolving. So, let's take a look:

    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    Welcome Slug!
    Great name.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    Karn list is testing well! I'll more info to you all soon.

    Hah - When Ponza works, it's soooo oppressive.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    The Great London Mulligan Caper ends tomorrow on MTGO

    That is good news for Karn-Pyro Prison decks, so let's read all about it! Headline: Combo decks benefited in the era of the London mulligan, and Karn, the great creator / mycosynth Lattice is a painfully slow Combo. Pweeeeease?

    Thus far, we have seen this combo as an overlay on an 8-Rabble construction. I wonder. Were the mechanics of 8-Rabble (Goblin Gun) ever designed for Planeswalker-6-cmc deployment? Consider Pascal Classen's list of 8-Rabble, and his novel changes: Dismembers/Abrades and No Sweepers.

    Dismembers go Under He went faster. Leaner. More punishing. Attrition Style.
    Karn? He goes Over. Slower. Win conditions come AFTER the locked board.

    Rabbles are NOT a lock. They are an upward trending attack that reaches critical mass unto themselves. At no point, do you slow the attack, and then say "Time to drop a 4-drop Planeswalker that does ZERO game-state impact, so that next turn I can deliver a completely off-axis win condition." Nevertheless, I follow Caligula's logic: press with the Rabbles. Either they get the job done, OR you're opponent is spent trying to repel their swarm AND you switch to a tactic they're not expecting.

    My concern is that the approaches aren't complementary. Although, I do recognize the 'toolbox wishing' advantage.
    So, I have been trying a NEW APPROACH: Trash Dragon-esque
    • Filter/Loot
    • Mana Acceleration
    • 4 Rabblemasters only and 0 Eidolons
    • Top Heavy CMC Mana Ramp
    I got a 4-1 last league and am 2-0 right now. I'll wait for tomorrow, before jumping in the ring again. I'm not getting Neoform out by a counterfeit strategy. That deck dies at Midnight tonight. Busy with work today/tonight, but will put up the decklist soon.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    Early testing for Mycosynth Lattice / Karn has been positive. The winning numbers aren't there which is discouraging, but I'm intuiting a better future.

    The first iterations of the build showcase 8 rabbles. I am trying a thinned out, turbo build with lots of filter/loot to get to the power lock suite and the new hammer blow: karn-lattice. I'll refine a bit more and then share a decklist.

    @slowgod - yeah, it's here. R/W Prison is not competitive, and Lattice-Karn doesn't give an extra dimension. It's just more of the same. So, I wouldn't chase that dragon. I don't know the Tron decks all that well (as a pilot), but I will say that Karn shreds 'em up (as an opponent).

    @eriksfynn: red decks are totally hosed by London Mulligan. First, they themselves can't benefit by a lowered hand count. They need card count to overwhelm. Second, they lose out by decks that can better search/mull for ideal hands. BUT, we are NOT a 'red' deck. Wink

    @Skia_AoP: Nice to see your face around the campfire again. Your analysis? Smile. Agree.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    FNM
    3-1 (as always, 'should'a been a 4-0 though, dude')

    Mill - win
    U/W Teferi|Jace - win
    Affinity - win
    B/W Eldrazi - loss (1-2)

    It's been about 3 weeks of solid testing and development of Rakdos Pyro Prison, and this list is where I have landed. I'm pretty firm on each card. And, yes, that includes the Obliterator. Aaaand, no, I'm not insane. Is that so? (7) discard-loot outlets, and I have (20) black land mana sources.

    To be brief, I endorse the deck. I think it is on the level with mono-red prison - maybe better, especially given the castable graveyard hate. So, give it a spin. I'm tossing my saddle on Karn for the next few weeks.

    Posted in: Control
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