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  • posted a message on The Modern Price Discussion Thread
    Pain's Reward buyout is thing?

    The only place I've ever saw this pop up from was a terrible The Mana Source budget deck tech, could that be spurring it?
    Posted in: Market Street Café
  • posted a message on Wanna build Psychotog!
    Quote from Xyx »
    Is that a thing, playing 8 lands and casting Upheaval + Zombie Infestation? You have enough card draw to do that somewhat reliably without skipping a beat, but that's still going to take 8 turns. Magic isn't as glacially slow as it used to be. Consider some sort of Basalt Monolith if you really want to Upheaval people.

    Yes, unfortunately, I am serious it definitely was a thing.

    The problem with mana rocks are: the lower the density of the cards you scoop up off Upheaval.

    While Upheaval screws your opponent it also serves as 1 piece of a two piece combo that should finish the game.

    So say you play Basalt Monolith, accelerating your mana, now if you use the mana it creates to "go off" as soon as possible (8 - 3 = 5) you would scoop up a total of 6 permanents (assuming you were playing a land and passing the turn). Now if you pitch those 6 permanents to Zombie Infestation they would net you 3 2/2 Zombie tokens. That's a trap right there, its a 3 turn clock, and that's assuming they don't chump any of them in the next 3 turns. Sure you're going to swing in for damage, but now you have to rely on drawing into mana producers (lands) to be able to do anything else for the rest of the game. Not so good.

    If you would get there organically, you would produce at least 4 but the magic number would be to be able to produce 5.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Wanna build Psychotog!
    Quote from TheDesacrator »
    Thanks for the input! Should I splash green for ramp? Or use mana rocks to get to 9 quicker?

    For the love of god no. Green gets ramp because of it's insane mana costs, but more on that it's because it can't draw cards. You're playing U just put enough lands in your deck and you'll get there.

    Control loses if it can't drop a land every turn. (generally a rule of thumb)

    Just play it and you'll get there, not to mention you really don't want to be using your mana on your turn unless it's going to win you the game.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Wanna build Psychotog!
    Upheaval is your win-con in this deck.

    You're magic number is 9. You need 6 to play Upheaval and 3 floating to cast Pyschatog immediately after, denying your opponent any meaningful way of interacting with it.

    Nightscape Familiar isn't as bad as you think, I mean it is now, but back then it allowed you to go off one turn earlier and was an okay-ish wall.

    Shadowmage Infiltrator is simply an amazing card in any capacity. RUN IT.

    Ok, so Force Spike, Repulse, and Deep Analysis just seem bad. Replace them with any of the following: Undermine, Countersquall, and seriously any draw spell (Deep Analysis is a good card, but without a price reduction it's just kind of meh.) Do not underestimate the loss of life on those counterspells as they reduce your critical mass number.

    Wonder is also astounding in this deck or Filth if you have a could Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth laying around.

    Oh also take out a Psychatog or two for Zombie Infestation, just in case.

    If your meta plays a lot of cheap low to the ground aggro, Drown in Sorrow is an all-star.

    Finally: Relinquery Tower. Don't argue, don't think, just do.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Help replacing Balefire Liege and Boros Charm?
    Have you ever considered Blasphemous Act?

    With all the smaller creatures in this deck it should be easy enough to cast, and if Boros Reckoner is on the field when you do, it's pretty much a win-con on it's own.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Updating W/U Control
    Quote from kamakazi339 »

    Unless I'm extremely bad at math.....

    Hard cast Decree of Justice = X 4/4 angels
    + ultimate = X 6/6 angels.

    Ultimate Espeth = X 3/3 fliers

    How is this better? In the terms of cost maybe but in the terms of power no way. The ultimate on 1/1 gives only 3/3s the ultimate on a hard cast decree gives 6/6s
    Quote from michaelangelo »
    I like this decklist but with just 20 instants do you really need Scepter? 4 more slots could easily be 4 more counters, removal, draw etc. Narah suggested Brainstorm, how about adding that plus some fetches? Or perhaps just remove Scepter for Sensei's Divining Top.

    I like Decree of Justice but why not just run a 2/2 split of Entreat the Angels and Martial Coup? Also, how about some Celestial Colonnade in the land base?

    As Xyx pointed out XX means you need to divid X in half. So hardcasting starts at 4WW, for a single 4/4 Angel at Sorcery speed. Take that same 6 mana, well not the same because it would be 5W do it'd be easier to cast, and you get 3 1/1 Soldiers at Instant speed,uncounterable, and you get to draw a card.

    Now with Elspeth, Sun's Champion's emblem you'd have 1x 4/4 Angel becomes a 6/6 with Flying, wherein the Soldiers would be 3x 3/3s with flying.

    Angel = 6 Power.
    Soldiers = 9 Power.

    Quote from michaelangelo »
    I like this decklist but with just 20 instants do you really need Scepter? 4 more slots could easily be 4 more counters, removal, draw etc. Narah suggested Brainstorm, how about adding that plus some fetches? Or perhaps just remove Scepter for Sensei's Divining Top.

    I like Decree of Justice but why not just run a 2/2 split of Entreat the Angels and Martial Coup? Also, how about some Celestial Colonnade in the land base?

    Yes I like the Isochron Scepter here, and the amount of Instants are balanced for it. Not to mention it's the whole reason Orim's Chant is in the deck, combine they can lock out my opponent... For the most part.

    I don't run Entreat the Angels because it's simply wretched in this deck. First off playing it your Draw Step requires you to tap down during your turn, something a reactive Draw-Go deck doesn't really want to do. Second it's horrible to peel this off on the back of a Sphinx's Revelation. I get that that problem clears it's self up in the presence of Brainstorm but that still leaves us at point one.

    Martial Coup is a fine card in Tap-Out style control, but once again, kind of not the direction the deck is going.

    Finally, Celestial Colonnade, yes, I'd love to put them in here, but I need to acquire more.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Updating W/U Control
    Quote from narah »

    23 lands seems pretty low for a deck that wants to be casting six mana planeswalkers. I would seriously consider going up to 24-26 lands. You really want to be making your land drops each turn until late in the game, when you can start powering out huge Revelations and Decrees.

    That's understanble I can certain trim a card or two for land.

    Quote from narah »
    Also, storage lands are a trap. They're terrible, terrible cards, and I strongly recommend just dropping them. It doesn't tap for colored mana, costs two mana to charge (it has to tap itself also), and it even costs mana to use it's effect. Just run enough lands in the first place, and you don't have to hassle with cards like that.

    On this topic I can understand where you're coming from, and I even admit that it's not the best card in the OP, but I like it here. Yes, as you can see from list this deck is trying to be competitive, on the other hand they joy that comes from the every 8ish games where I can power out a huge X of this things back is well worth it eating up 1 land spot. Seriously it's a "fun of" card. It's not good but it can lead to a decent chuckle for me.

    Quote from narah »
    12 Counterspells is almost certainly overkill. I would recommend dropping the Render Silents. By the time you can cast it, you're really going to want to be responding to their threats with Verdicts. Also, it's too expensive to go on the scepter. I do understand why you dislike Mana Leak, but it's actually an amazingly good card. The mana requirements are lower, for those times you find yourself without double blue mana on turn two; and by the time your opponents can afford to pay three, you should already have taken over the game.

    Shhheeee I don't know... But seriously I can consider dropping Render Silent if I can replace Mana Leak with a hard counter. Negate seems good enough and it would let me move Hindering Light into the sideboard, and Memory Lapse seems bomby. Like, I get why Mana Leak is good, believe me I understand, but there's just been too many times where I have been gripping it and have been utterly frustrated and wished it were something, anything else.

    Assuming I can replace Mana Leak, and I take out the Render Silent and add another land that will leave me with 3 open slots. So Impulse? Normally I reach for Think Twice first but I think I'd rather have the selection than the extra card.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Updating W/U Control
    Quote from Xyx »
    Quote from Odin"s Chosen »
    Wait are you arguing for or against here?
    I am arguing for using Narset's -2 or otherwise against including Narset at all. If you're not running her for the -2, then she's no good.

    Ah gotcha, I tested her today being more aggressive with her new 2 you're right it's pretty brilliant.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Updating W/U Control
    Quote from greywyn »
    A couple of other good options that could be used in place of Mana Leak...

    * Daze
    * Remand

    They might not look like much, but each is quite powerful in its own way, and could possibly suit your deck pretty well.

    edit: That is, of course, if you don't want to go full Force of Will. Grin

    I want to keep something that can stick to Isochron Specter, and while yes both Daze and Remand do that, they don't deal with the threat. Daze is a fantastic card when you are playing to your first 3 turns (especially when your afraid of someone comboing out on you), but this deck is really built for the long haul. So what realistically happens is the first Daze is a blow out but every subsequent one is terrible. It's place in Legacy and Vintage, and it's power level there, is undeniable. There everyone knows your running it but it just boils down to who's faster. It's utterly wretched under a Stick too.

    As for Remand, well I believe it's move suited for combo oriented decks where you're digging for pieces to something, don't you? It doesn't solve the problem, just delays it. Yes, I realize you can make the same argument for Memory Lapse, but I think it's a bit different in the fact that it stalls out their next draw.

    As for Force of Will, the same argument that applies to Daze is applicable here except instead for your trading a playable card in your hand instead of setting your mana development back a turn. Neither of which you really want to do without the fear of instant win combos in the first turn. Not to mention, that price tag though, lol.

    Thank you for taking the time to post though, I greatly appreciate it.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Updating W/U Control
    Wait are you arguing for or against here?
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Updating W/U Control


    So pretty standard White Blue control deck that can lock the game out with Isochron Scepter with an Orim's Chant tucked under it, and gains incremental advantage through a full house of sweepers, counters, and a couple decent Planeswalkers.

    Elspeth, Sun's Champion - Is really an all-star here. Her +1 pumps out tokens to protect herself, Narset Transcendent, and me while taking chips of life points here and there when they can. Her Neg 3 can sweep a midrange boards presence of any fatties laying around. Finally, her Ultimate, makes all those weenie dudes serious threats, and makes a cycled Decree of Justice better than if you hardcasted it. Come to think of it, her design is really something to marvel at in a control deck. If there's a threat under 3 power you can set up a double or triple block with her tokens to take it down or if there is a threat out of the tokens range you can just Neg her and wipe it clean.

    Narset Transcendent - I have never really heard anyone speak of this card. I really see her as a power house in control. With that being said, her Neg 2 is vastly useless here. Her +1 is going to net me a card the majority of the time since roughly 2/3 of the deck is noncreature or nonland cards. After a few turns of her being on the field you can pop her Ultimate and that really puts the game out of reach for your opponent because you can just sit back and hold your counters knowing 1/3 of there deck (or more) is utterly dead. Regardless of what light you look at her under she is just going to promote and produce card advantage in this deck.

    Isochron Scepter - Grants virtual card advantage at worst and locks my opponent out of the game at best. With 16 cards that can be imprinted onto it, this deck might not be the most ideal home for it but it's just too powerful to pass up. Weather it's a simple Counterspell to gain tiny little bits of virtual card advantage or Orim's Chant just utterly stopping your opponent from casting spells or attacking ever again, you'll be glad to see this card when you rip it off the top of the deck.

    Decree of Justice - I needed a finisher in this deck, originally it was Aetherling then it became Eternal Dragon and now it's Decree of Justice. It can be played at instant speed, is all but uncounterable, produces a threat that skirts spot removal, replaces itself, and synergizes in tandem with Elspeth, Sun's Champion's Ultimate to put the game on a short clock. Seems to be a pretty good fit. Sidenote: There are a ton of cards in my meta that force a sacrifice like Diabolic Edict, Chainer's Edict, Geth's Verdict, etc. So a single threat is generally bad in my meta.

    Supreme Verdict - An uncounterable sweeper. There's not really much more to say about this card.

    Orim's Chant - In a vacuum it's pretty good. It's basically a Time Walk against aggro, midrange, combo, and any other non-draw go strategies. Get this card tucked under an Isochron Scepter and it's all but Good Game. Has a nice little interaction with Narset Transcendent's Ultimate to lock your opponent completely out of the game.... barring creatures with Flash, but we have other counters for that.

    Swords to Plowshares - Unconditional creature removal for W at instant speed with a drawback that this deck really doesn't care about. There's a reason this card is one of the best removal spells ever printed.

    Counterspell - An Unconditional counter for a scant UU. Meh I really shouldn't have to tell you why this card is good.

    Mana Leak - I loathe this card... With everything I am. It's necessary though, for now. It's a bomb in the first 4 turns and only requires 1 hard mana to cast. In a multi-color control deck it slots in. But seriously can anybody offer up a better suggestion for this slot? I considered Hindering Light but I generally point Mana Leak at an early game creature. I also thought on Memory Lapse for a good long time, it seems good here. I can really use someone's input on this.

    Render Silent - Of all the 3 mana Counterspells i was between this, Forbid, and Scatter to the Winds. While I like Scatter the Winds a lot, Render Silent just gives you a nice position mid to late game if you don't have everything locked up by then. If you think about it, it allows you to play whatever you want on your turn, without fear of something slipping past you on your opponents next turn,all for only 3 open mana.

    Sphinx's Revelation - Wow. This card... Just wow. Return to Ravnica gave UW control such good cards, but all pale in comparison and fall into Sphinx's Revelations shadow. Stroke of Genius was a brilliant card a long time ago, but for the same CMC we now get to gain life too? Where do I sign up? Resolving this spell at the end of an opponents turn and dumping all your mana into it generally puts you into a situation where you literally need to try to lose the game. I could go on and on but in reality I am sure you get the point.

    As for all the lands they're pretty typical, nothing really special to see here with the exception of:

    Calciform Pools - Not really the best card but nice as a fun of in this deck. Just here to store mana in case we need it in an emergency but honestly its synergy with Sphinx's Revelation and Decree of Justice are too much to pass up. This slot could go to Mage-Ring Network but with how intensive this deck is on colored mana, how low the curve is, and how reactive it is, the 1 you pay for a storage counter E.o.T. will vary rarely ever be a problem.

    Mishra's Factory - In my humble opinion this is the best non-multicolor man land. It activates for 1, becomes a 2/2 ground pounder, and can pump itself or another one up by simply tapping itself. That may not seem like too much but I can not tell you how many games I've played where people will swing in with a 2/2 thinking they'll be, I activate, declare blocks, tap to pump and my opponent loses his creature. At it's best it clears out some small dudes, on an average day it keeps them at home, on a bad day it goes in for damage. Seriously underestimated and underrated.

    Now to the Sideboard

    Detention Sphere - So everyone likes Oblivion Ring and Banishing Light and who wouldn't? They can remove any nonland problem permanent with ease. Planeswalkers can be a serious problem for this deck since it lacks offense in a big way so these come in to sure up that problem. Enchantments can also be bothersome and there isn't really room to have mainboard answers, and my meta isn't to big on them so i can't bring myself to burn a slot for removal. Finally it sures up the match up against token strategies as well, acting as a 3 mana Wrath of God.

    Circle of Protection: Red - What's this decks worst match up? Yep burn, by a mile. Second would be heavy discard strategies. So maybe this should be Leyline of Sancity, Witchbane Orb, or Ivory Mask?

    Wrath of God - Wow, yeah ok... So this is overkill. I remember putting this in the sideboard because there was a rash of creatures being played with regeneration in my meta. That problem has seemed to clear up, so I am open to suggestions on what to replace this card with.

    Negate - I debate back and forth on this card whether it should be Negate or Hindering Light. I like that Negate helps evening up the matchups against most combo and control decks along with nerfing 'Walkers but I love that Hindering Light replaces it's self. Im also open to suggestions on this slot as well.

    As always thank you for reading this and for your comments/suggestions.

    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Please help improve this old deck of mine! UB Control/Mill
    Alright well, how about a couple Haunting Echoes then?
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Please help improve this old deck of mine! UB Control/Mill
    Do you play with a Sideboard?
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Orzhov Deck
    Just looking on some input on this deck if you wouldn't mind.

    So there's the deck, basic stuff. Control the hand and board and gain incremental advantages until you win out.

    Any suggestions?

    Also any idea of what to put in the last 3 sideboard slots? I was thinking CoP Red.

    Thanks in advance for any help.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Casual Blue/Black Control
    The deck :

    So basic idea is incremental card advantage through Shadowmage Infiltrator and the sweepers.

    Late game Dralnu, Lich Lord comes down and brings value back from the grave and Army of the Damned closes the game out.

    The sideboard pretty much transforms the deck into a Teachings package (albeit a lack luster one for now.)

    So what do you think?

    I'm on the fence about the finisher, I keep swinging between Army of the Damned/Sphinx of Jwar Isle/Tombstalker/Tasigur, the Golden Fang (and removing Dralnu, Lich Lord)
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
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