AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY DREAMS COME TRUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a rough idea for a mainboard going off of the new spoiler, now. I want to write up a bant one as well so I'll work on something for that too. I'm not entirely sure how to approach a sideboard for the deck so I'll wait to see how things might turn out after the rest of the spoilers since there seems to be some spirit tribal support (maybe could be a good 1 drop?)
So first time post in here, im so extremely happy to see WOTC support the spirits tribe. I started getting into modern when shadows over innistrad released. I stopped playing during the original innistrad block, i held onto a few cards and most importantly giest of st.traft and drogskol captain.
Since i returned i built (in paper) Naya burn, Abzan midrange, Mono G tron, Grixis control/shadow, elves and GW goodstuff. I always let others play my decks as i love to break out my somewhat budget (with aether vial) UW spirits deck.
I just have to say. This deck is pure enjoyment. I always have a great time playing it, and have always hated merfolk...or Mer-men.
These last two spoilers, one lord and one grave hate should definately be something to tangle with going forward. I havent been able to get on board with more than 2 Nebelghasts however..maybe these could finally replace them?
This new lord will push the deck, we might get to a point were there will be too many spirits to choose from, if the printing of a new lord is any indication of future increase of support for the tribe. Of course this is a problem i welcome with great joy
I would still wait to see, unfortunately. I think right now the better choice might be Hierarch/Coco but the vial version still could be very very viable depending on what comes up with the rest of spoilers. I think there's still over 100 cards left, and I don't know how much longer we have spoilers for. If you're willing to wait, I would wait to see before pulling the trigger on the off chance there are more playables spoiled and then you could really make a better decision based on that.
New lord, new tech, I am happy to be thinking about Spirits again after a long break! To address the Bant questions a little, I think the problem is that the Caleb Durward-style build of Bant is very different from the UW Vial builds.
This is the last one he did well with at a large event six months ago
Notice some key items not present in UW lists aside from CoCo:
2-4 Geist of Saint Traft, which is clearly about setting a fast clock.
0-2 Reflector Mage, which is a great tempo card that can also block, something that is very important against Humans. This is there instead of Nebelgast Herald. 4 Noble HierarchThis is by far the most important card in Bant and even if you don't play CoCo, it likely makes the Bant manabase worth it. This card means Turn 2 Queller, Captain or Geist plus all the love that is Exalted.
Probably more. The ones Bant in particular gets value out of are EE, Pridemage, War Monk, Natural State and Shalai.
For Bant in particular, there are a couple questions that will impact build decisions, but I will start with a point that is invariant with Bant:
1. RUN NOBLE HIERARCH. Period. End. Of. Question. If I have to explain it, you have't used it. Let me put it in other terms. Best 1-drop in Humans? Noble Hierarch. Not Vial, not Champion.
2. There isn't much space in Bant thanks to the new Lord, since we don't have many cards to give. Notice that, the non-creature count remaining the same, we essentially have 3-4 spots (I don't like running 4 Selfless Spirit, but most players will.)
3. CoCo or Vial? Leaving aside the known advantages and disadvantages, we have to ask if this is now a deck with so many CMC 2 options, and in Bant 12 CMC 1 plays, is trying to go to CMC 4 really worth it for the late game advantage?
4a. If Vial is the choice and we have a lower curve (15 CMC 1 spells, 12 CMC 2 spells, 8 CMC 3 spells based on the skeleton), can we drop to 20 lands and have a consistent manabase? If we can, we now have 5-6 open slots instead of 3-4. 2 Curious Obsession makes sense, plus some PIs and maybe something else? that also keeps your curve low.
4b. If CoCo remains the option of choice, then I think, Phantasmal Image, GoST and Relfector Mage are in a bare-knuckle brawl for 3-4 slots when they want at least 2 each, since you can't dip below 22 lands. Maybe you go with 2 GoST and 1 Steel. Or 3 PI and max out on Lords. Maybe you even go 2 PI and 1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner main. Maybe 1 GoST and 2 Reflector Mage or just 3 RM. It's a tough set of choices.
So that's my first swipe at Bant based on what we have right now.
I think this new lord clearly favors the UW build. I ran Bant Spirits and you're looking to curve Hierarch/Birds into GoST and the CoCo, skipping the 2 drops. UW looks stronger now because it can play a tempo strategy, with Vial and Rattlechains enabling instant speed fliers that can protect other creaatures and gain incremental advantage while holding up things like Remand or Vapor Snag to slow down the opponent and close the game with creatures. Ican Easily see something like Vial T1, new lord T2 plus wanderer through vial, T3 Rattlechains through Vial and protect those 6 flying power with Captain, Rattlechains or other spells and win in 3/4 turns. UW is the way i'll go at least.
I think we need to be careful and weigh the benefits of using Nebelgast Herald over Reflector Mage for the tribal synergy and instant speed alone.
I've never been a fan of using off-Tribe creatures that may have a slightly better ability than the counterpart creature in the tribe. It can be a slippery slope, ending with "why not just play the other tribe?".
RE: Bant vs. UW, I'm just trying to think Bant for now, but UW might be the better choice. Testing will be important.
RE: Bant essentially just for Hierarch: I would like to see another good CMC 1 creature for Spirits though and right now it does not exist. I would simply say that tempo-wise, and this is a tempo deck, ramp to play your CMC 3 spells on turn 2 and Exalted are very good. Playing a turn 1 effect that matters is very important, and 12 good turn 1 plays can make a big difference. Honestly, I also am feeling like Hierarch + Vial is so good in a Blood Moon-heavy meta, whereas Bant CoCo was much weaker to it and UW is weaker to land destruction vis-a-vis Ponza, but way better vs GQ.
RE: Herald v. Mage: Tap vs. bounce. Tap each time a Spirit ETB vs. Can't cast the card of the same name you bounced for one turn. Instant and 2U vs Sorcery and 1UW. I love them both, personally, and if the move is aggression and instant speed, Herald gets better. I'm not convinced you will want too many of either one.
RE: GoST, I think you keep in GoST probably only if you keep in CoCo, but it is still a very powerful turn 2 play CoCo or no CoCo.
Also, I would love suggestions for getting away from non-creature spells even further. For example, I could go back to Rhox War Monk v. Burn, but I feel like that is the only match I want it in, whereas Azorius Charm synergizes extremely well with this, has multiple uses, but mostly makes those big swings regain us a ton of life.
Yeah... gonna pretend you didn't bring that up
I went with Bant CoCo for a while, took 2nd place at a 1k Team Event with it here in Baltimore and then felt like it was a bit soft and moved to Eldrazi Stompy/Stax decks since probably February of this year, but I am very excited for the new cards and kind of hoping this pushes Spirits into Tier 1 (again). Spirits is my favorite tempo deck and I hated to see it hated out by Hoo-mahns.
Glad to see you keeping this going strong. ketoglutarate did a really nice job on the Primer, one of the best on Salvation IMO.
Private Mod Note
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
So far I have noticed many times we have a math by which, upon landing a lord with 3 spirits on the field and swing, we get our opponent to resist with 2-3 life points, which made me think what a red splash for Lightning Bolt could have ment in terms of winning one turn earlier. Getting back to Vapor Snag, it's going to be interesting to see if that 1 life we make them lose is actually important or not.
Bolts are too mainstream, I prefer the unexpected
Red splash sounds cool, but is so expensive, I'd prefer a black splash if we get new cool black spirits in Ravnica.