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The Magic Market Index for Jan 12, 2018
 
Treasure Cruisin' Tempered Steel
 
The Magic Market Index for Jan 5, 2018
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from Jex »
    Quote from LeakyMana »
    Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek + Saheeli Rai + Aetherworks Marvel + Inventor's Fair = Jeskai AtherThopter-SwordFair ??

    (Probably not really.)


    Saheeli may have a useful -2 in a heavy artifact deck (giving legitimacy to UR artifact based decks, instead of UB being defacto the best), but her +1 is actually bad.


    Gonna have to disagree with you here.

    I admit it could be better, but just saying it is bad in general is disingenuous. Scry 1 is always decent, and pinging players or PWs for 1 when we already run a lot of burn isn't nothing.

    I expect some powerful UR/Grixis/jeskai artifact shells to be built around this card.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Maybe some kind of jeskai midrange build that curves up to Pia and Kiran, but has a light splash for the thopter sword combo.

    Or the PW might be best in some odd UR artifact tempo deck.

    Either way cool to know we have some new toys coming down the pipeline.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Looks like Izzet colors are getting a 3 CMC PW in Kaladesh.

    http://mythicspoiler.com/kld/cards/saheelirai.html

    Saheeli Rai

    1UR
    Planeswalker - Saheeli
    +1: Scry 1. Saheeli Rai deals 1 damage to each opponent.
    -2: Create a token that's a copy of target artifact or creature you control, except it's an artifact in addition to its other types. That token gains haste. Exile is at the beginning of the next end step.
    -7: Search your library for up to three artifact cards with different names, put them onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.

    Maybe move jeskai towards thopter-sword combo?

    Either way it'll be cool to theorycraft where this card fits in the puzzle.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from MrM0nd4y »
    Helix is good against Burn, good against Suicide Zoo and regular Zoo. It can also stop you from getting burned out against the mirror or against another UR/x deck. Sweepers are better against Zoo but bad against Suicide Zoo and Burn and Timely is sorcery speed.

    All 3 are good cards though. Just for different situations.


    And what about other MUs?
    It looks like good against a low % of the meta. Don't you have any other better tool?


    I think Helix is an automatic 2-of in any jeskai list, and the 3rd and or 4th copy are more of a metagame decision.

    To be honest most of the time Helix just acts as a poor mans Lightning Bolt. The lifegain is good and all, but it doesn't balance out the lack of efficiency compared to other option.

    I mean Helix is super good against burn and zoo variants, but is also decent in plenty of other places.

    Aside from Bolts and Paths, almost everything we run is decent most of the time and situationally good in others.

    I think a matchup people often overlook is bant eldrazi. The deck does a lot to make Anger, EE, spot removal, and permission fairly poor. We really need to be running a suite of 4 CMC sweepers (ideally Verdict to fight post board Stubborn Denial) to bring the matchup closer to even.

    If you want a nice hedge card instead of a 3rd of 4th helix; then I would seriously consider Izzet Charm. The card is a workhorse across pretty much the spectrum of all matchups.

    Also Electrolyze has fallen out of favor, but the card is still palatable even if you have to pair it with a bolt to take out a 4-5 toughness creature. It also buys time against token strategies, for instance it makes Lingering Souls feel much less punishing when you can trade favorably with the front or back half.

    Edit: Also if you want a card that is good against bant eldrazi AND burn (but worse against most zoo draws) then Blessed Alliance is sweet. Bant is only typically attacking with 1-2 big threats and it gets around Reality Smasher.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from TappingStones »


    Thanks!

    The deck felt good overall. A bunch of parts working cohesively. I'd say lightning helix was crucial. It allowed me to win several races versus Jund,one race against hexproof and kept me from dying in the two burn matchups. AV was devastating against Jund. In several games I suspended AV on T5 or later and it was still good. Serum Visions made the top of the deck gas. Nahiri was usually game over.

    In the sideboard going forward I would like access to a second Engineered Explosives. I brought it in almost every sideboard game. Elspeth won me games that other cards wouldn't have. Stonewalling Thruns, Tasigurs, goyfs, raging ravines, etc.

    I didn't bring in Geist much as I never faced the mirror or tron. I brought it in on the play against ad naseum, Scapeshift, storm, and the hexproof decks, but sided out versus storm and ad nas. On the draw. Clique number 2 came in often as well.


    Yeah I think I might try to find room for a 3rd Helix. Especially if burn is on the rise.

    Looks like Tron did better at your GP than the other two. This plus the presence of Bant Eldrazi might have kept many jund decks from the top tables. Not to mention you beating up on them.

    Took a close look at your deck list. Is there any reason you chose that distribution of fetch lands? 4 Flooded Strand, 3 Arid Mesa, 1 Scalding Tarn is different from the normal 4 Strands 4 Tarns.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    hmmm overall I would say jeskai harbinger had a pretty lackluster performance across the 3 GPs this weekend.

    No top 8 appearances, 1 top 32, and 2-3 top 64 (MTGSalvations own @TappingStones is one of these).

    Even with Nahiri + AV it looks like jeskai is still lacking the power to keep up with jund, but I guess that is to be expected.

    Metagame is full of Suicide Zoo, Burn, Infect, Affinity, and Jund. Bant Eldrazi and Dredge are decently represented, which only makes the environment more hostile for us. Runner ups are probably Ad Nauseum and Merfolk.

    GP Lille (~1900 players) - http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gplil16/9th-64th-decklists-2016-08-28

    GP Indy (~2000 players) - http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpind16/9-32-decklists-2016-08-28
    http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpind16/9-32-decklists-2016-08-28

    GP Guangzhou (~1000 players) - http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpgua16/9th-32nd-decklists-2016-08-28
    http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpgua16/33rd-64th-decklists-2016-08-28


    Looks like we will have to keep adapting in order to keep up. If not then I feel out tier 1 status is not long for this world.

    Maybe a move towards a more controlling version that de-emphasizes the Nahiri combo? I saw plenty of UW lists rocking multiple Cryptics + 4 Colonnades.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from TappingStones »
    GP Guangzhou Jeskai Nahiri

    11-4 (no byes)

    Day Two

    R10 Jund 2-0 W

    R11 Nacatyl Burn 2-0 W

    R12 Infect 2-1 W (T. Saito)

    R13 Infect 0-2 L

    R14 Jund Delirium 2-0 W

    R15 Boggles 0-2 L

    I avoided bad match ups for the most part only Scapeshift and Ad Naseum are unfavorable.

    I prepared to beat Jund and went a whooping 12-0 in games against them.

    I'm a little tired to most my list but my maindeck spells mirrored Jim Davis but I don't play Timely in the maindeck.

    Sideboard
    2 Negate
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Crumble to Dust
    1 Stony Silence
    1 Timely Reinforcements
    1 Izzet Statiscaster
    1 Wear/Tear
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Geist of Saint Traft
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
    1 Anger of the Gods

    Any questions feel free to ask.

    Money finish and 2 pro points.

    The deck felt fantastic!


    Congrats on a solid finish.

    You dodged some bad matchups, but to be honest I feel like going 12-0 against Jund is a testament to your play skill. That matchup can be grindy, even if we might be slightly favored with AV.

    I feel like you would have had some issues if you ran into Bant Eldrazi at any point in the tournament, which was better represented on day 2 than jeskai. (according to http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpgua16/day-2-metagame-breakdown-featuring-mklthd-2016-08-27)

    Can't say I condone zero 4 CMC sweepers (Wrath or Verdict), but results don't lie.

    Did any cards in the main deck or sideboard stand out as particularly good or bad? I don't mean cards like Crumble, which obviously isn't good when you never play Tron style decks. But more in a general sense. Like was the singleton Geist worth the spot?
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from LeakyMana »

    That makes a lot of sense. It's the approach I'm taking as well, though just for FNM-ish levels for now, and I don't have enough reps against Tron yet to really feel like I know what approach I want to take. And when I see that other, better players (Jim Davis, etc.) have 2 Crumble to Dust (and often 2 Spreading Seas as well) in the sideboard, it makes me wonder if I'm just wrong. Interesting to see you're taking the same approach.


    I mean if Tron is decently represented in your local area where you play then I definitely recommend having some sideboard technology against them. However I tend to build my sideboards pretty 'generic' because I play at a couple different stores, not to mention online or the occasional tournament within driving distance.

    The pros and numerous other players with Crumble or Spreading Seas aren't wrong, but holding up 2-3 slots for a matchup I might play once or twice in a series of rounds AND those cards have to be in my hand at the right time AND they can't have natural tron on the play (t3 karn = you lose) AND...etc, etc.

    I'd personally rather just use those slots for maybe another negate, lifegain spell, sweeper, etc; which in conjunction with my other sideboard cards means I have a lot of game to bring in against a bunch of matchups.

    Granted this is all because I don't see Tron or Valakut type decks as much as I used to.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from LeakyMana »

    I see you have no Crumble to Dust (or Spreading Seas) against Tron. How do you sideboard for that match? And how do you find the match-up without ways to disrupt their mana base?


    Mostly I concede that it is a bad matchup. Even with 2-3 cards in the SB for you are still an underdog.

    From my SB I would be bringing in Mindcensor, Clique, Geist, Negate, and maybe the D-sphere depending on what read I have. I'd side out some bolts + paths (leave some in in case of Wurm Coil) + helix + anger.

    I just lean on my permission spells plus getting an early threat to clock them in order to finish the game as quick as possible.

    For me it was a matter of role assessment. Not to mention I believe those slots are better served with cards that see more play in other matchups.

    Basically I feel I am getting net value by having more versatile SB slots for other matchups which might raise my win percentage up to %60+ rather than raise the tron matchup to near even post board (which still means you are unlikely to win the match since they are ahead game 1).

    If tron rises up to the presence it had 3ish months ago I might change my tune.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from TappingStones »
    7-2 at GP Guangzhou (no byes)

    Lost a heart breaking game 3 in round 9 to miss 8-1

    Jund 2-0 W
    Scapeshift 0-2 L
    Ad Naeseum 2-1 W
    Bushwhacker Zoo 2-1 W
    Jund 2-0 W
    Jund 2-0 W
    U/W hexproof 2-0 W
    Jund 2-0 W
    Storm 1-2 L

    Wish me luck tomorrow!


    Best of luck tomorrow. Congrats on a day 2 performance thus far.

    Mostly I am impressed that you went 8-0 in games against Jund. I mean that matchup is still close even with AV.

    A loss against storm is regrettable, but variance is a thing.

    @chaos021

    At first I thought it might be some Zur the Enchanter type deck, but without black it is most likely some Geist + Invisible Stalker deck that maybe plays a little slower than the GW version. Dunno that is my guess at the moment. Slippery Bogle is still blue, and white has the really important enchantments with Daybreak Coronet and Ethereal Armor, just add in some evasion + card advantage enchantments from blue and maybe that is a thing.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from ax92 »
    I believe they do that to have another win condition, so you could maximize the way to get the job done. 1st way Nahiri's Ult., 2nd Colonnade or/and snap/bolt, 3rd Ajani's ultimate (that happens quite often).
    Above that they're pretty much synergic: keep tapped a permanent, use nahiri to exile that, or just -2 to helix as another way to protect her.


    I think it is more for the extra lifegain plus the Nahiri synergy like you mention.

    Not sure I like loading on 4 CMC PWs. Mostly for the mana curve considerations. Also if you wanted a PW that had more "impact on the board" I would probably prefer Elspeth KE or Gideon Ally since they can get blockers set up. Ajani is just too similar to Nahiri in role/function.

    That is why I have like my singleton Jace VP. It is a play you can set up on turns 2/3 in between the occasional tap lands or holding up a 1 CMC spell, then it almost always flips on the first activation at which point you drop Nahiri and they have to struggle uphill just to break even.

    Other than that I am definitely going to pick up/try a Kher Keep. 0/1 Kobolds are just funny. (the token is called "Kobolds of Kher Keep" plural? lulz)

    Edit: Here is my current decklist:

    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    So I've managed to top4 a pptq this weekend with the list I've posted few pages back. Lost against infect in semis, beat dredge in top8. Overall I really like my decklist, will probably try to squeeze at least 1 timely and 1 celestial purge before GP next weekend.

    Cheers,
    TFSS


    Congrats on a solid finish. Infect is super hard to beat when their draws come together.

    How is the Sleight of Hand + 22 Lands working out? Does it feel fluid? By fluid I mean do you often find yourself chopping up your plays (holding up removal/permission) to aggressively dig for what you need?

    I'm interested because I just added 2 Sleights to my deck (4 SV + 2 Sleight) while running 23 lands and so far it feels alright. Sleight is...different. The ability to immediately get the card you want is refreshing, obviously not as powerful but still functional.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from TappingStones »

    May I ask why so many of you seem to be having trouble with fast decks? Because you shouldn't be. And how Sleight is going to help is really beyond me. 4 Serum Visions is PLENTY of that effect for this deck and the AVs are essentially the most powerful thing we can do.


    As @HarryStyles69 mentioned it is not that I have been struggling particularly with fast decks, it is just that such a large portion of the strongest decks in the format look to kill you super quick. Affinity, Infect, Zoo, Burn, Dredge, etc, etc. We are basically at the mercy of our draws to ensure we have the right suite of situational answers to stave off death.

    Sure AV on turn 1 is strong if you plan to trade resources and then reload. However what happens when you draw 2 AVs + taplands + some number of 2 CMC counters? A hand of lands a spells, keepable against many decks; however against a fast start from any of the decks I mentioned above and if any of your drawsteps are lands you probably lose.

    How cards perform in various situations is just as important as just ensuring that the effect is strategically sound. For example we play plenty of counters because it is a really useful defensive/reactive effect that fits with our goal of going lategame, but permission is horrible to draw if you are behind. So for that reason we don't overload on the effect and diversify our toolbox (removal, threats, etc).

    I like AV. I play AV. However I am tired of people ignoring that there is a real downside to the card. It is asinine to plan around and theorize solely under the assumption that your draws will always be smooth. 1 CMC cantrip/selection spells are the most mana efficient way to improve the consistency of the deck.

    I am choosing Sleight of Hand over other more powerful/better options simply because of the casting cost. I have plenty of reasons to hold up mana on turn 2, or play a 1 CMC spell + hold up 2 mana on turn 3; adding Anticipate or Telling Time would probably just complicate things.

    Also having more selection/velocity means the likelyhood of seeing sideboard cards and singleton spells, and considering some sideboard hate can swing a game that could prove as a net advantage.

    I am not arguing that adding Sleight or removing AV maindeck are strictly correct choices, but I think my hypothesis has some merit and is worth trying out.

    Unless you are playing in larger competitive events I personally think that everyone should be updating trying new things every week. It isn't as if changing a few slots here and there is going to change the core functionality of the deck.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    On the topic of Electrolyze:

    I think Electrolyze is best in the versions that are not running main deck AV.

    Prior to the AV unban many old URW players will know that our main form of "card advantage" was churning through our deck with cards like Remand, then pulling ahead with the occasional 2-for-1 with cards like Electrolyze and or Snap + *insert spell*.

    If you are running AV you want to generally have a lower curve, both so you can play all the cards you draw from AV and so you can be mana efficient in the early turns to make up for lost tempo resulting from the suspended AV.

    For me the slot(s) that I use for Anger of the Gods were previously Electrolyze. Both are 3 CMC so they fit the same slot on the curve, and both act as a catch up/pull ahead effect.

    My next change to my deck is going up to six cantrips by adding Sleight of Hand and moving AV to the sideboard. Will see if this improves the performance of sideboard cards and consistency against super fast decks.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from geltar »
    Hi Guys,

    Im looking for some advices for my lists. I was trying to take a picture of my local meta in the last event and this was the result:

    Affinity 5
    Jund 4
    Tron 4
    Burn 4
    Coco 3
    Valakault 2
    Delver 2
    Dredge 2
    Jeskai Control 2
    UW control 2
    4C Gift 2
    Zoo 2
    GR Devotion 2
    Eldrazi Taxes 1
    Infect 1
    Merfolk 1
    Suicide 1
    Ad Nauseam 1
    Storm 1
    Boogles 1
    Bant Eldrazi 1
    Lantern 1


    My first list was the more comfortable for me in my FNM test, maybe because i love a more control oriented style (I play the old Jeskai Control and i love it, and i play UW control).

    ...

    Then i try a more fast aproach, Im a control player, but i make my bests performances in tournaments with Jeskai Geist and Death and Taxes, more midrange decks... I dont blame my decks, i blame the pilot, maybe im making mistakes with my control skills (advices accepted!), for that im trying a more fast aproach:

    ...

    Well... I love if our old dogs can give me some advice, or hear your opinions about my list and my meta.

    Thank you community!!! Smileup

    NOTE:
    1-I dont have 4 scalding tarns and i want buy the other after a reprint...
    2-First time posting decks, sorry if arent good enough.




    Am I missing something? I feel like I counted 58 cards for your lists.

    Regardless I would probably take the second list as a starting point since it more closely resembles 'stock' Nahiri lists that have been around for a while.

    You have a pretty diverse local meta, so I guess you want to keep things generic as possible and just evaluate single cards as "good/okay/bad" for particular matchups.

    For instance Spell Snare is good against Affinity, whereas Remand is not.

    I would like to see 1-2 more sweepers in the list to fight through Jund, Abzan, and other creature decks. Anger of the Gods can be invalidated by many creature based decks.

    Also I would personally never go below 4 Paths. The 4 Path + 4 Bolt + 4 Snapcasters is pretty core to the power of our deck, not to mention many of the decks you listed don't care about 3 dmg removal (Eldrazi, Tron, Jund, Coco, Dredge, etc). Having Path and Mana Leak is anti-synergy but we play with the tools we have.

    If you start from the second list you should include some more lifegain somewhere. Looks like burn is fairly popular near you and leaning on 2 Helix just won't cut it if they get any sort of reasonable draw.

    Ive been toying with the idea of a maindeck Blessed Alliance instead of Timely Reinforcements, but I haven't pulled the trigger quite yet.
    Posted in: Tier 1 (Modern)
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