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The Magic Market Index for Oct 13, 2017
 
The World of Kamigawa
 
Treasure Cruisin' - Manaless Dredge
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from TheAller »
    Quote from toroks »
    Mindbreak Trap is another Storm killer that used to see more play back when Seething Song was legal. If it gets remanded, it's just to play it again for free.


    I don't think they were talking about remanding our counterspell (Counterflux can't even be countered), they were talking about Storm remanding their Grapeshot. Mindbreak Trap doesn't solve that problem at all.

    That's true. The ability to recast after remand can still be relevant, though, especially after side when they're trying for the classic medium sized Empty the warrens.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Mindbreak Trap is another Storm killer that used to see more play back when Seething Song was legal. If it gets remanded, it's just to play it again for free.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from rick90 »
    Quote from toroks »
    Quote from rick90 »
    Looks like all the Jeskai lists that made results at that SCG run only SV apart from the pure control draw go list. I am still puzzled by the right number but probably I will give the original list another try. I have seen Rosum playing only SV i think this weekend at SCG.

    Interesting to see that no queller/geist midrange lists made it to top 32 in the SCG Open, despite it's popularity (~8% jeskai decks day 2). Brandon Dollaway ended 46th and Jonathan Rosum ended 65th. Only one jeskai in top 32 and that is a 4 snapcaster/1 Gearhulk list. The turning point for Rosum was when he tapped out for Pia and Kiran against Todd Stevens' GW Company, only to be punished by a six mana Elspeth on the other side of the table...


    Yes but I dont think it means the deck is not good anymore. There are no ETron lists as well but the deck is still a tier 1. I did not finish to watch Rosum's match against Stevens but I think GW Company is quite a bad match up for us unless we dont see mass removal to provide some advantage.

    Rosum also lost to Storm (Paul Muller, the winner of the tournament) and Joshua Smith on Affinity. Brandon Dollaway lost to Ryan Webster on GR Ponza.
    Storm is also what stopped Greatnate from 5-0'ing his last MTGO League, with a 0-2 loss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSnrJ84i7K8&t=41s
    Our clocks and Cryptic Commands are often too slow and clunky against storm.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from rick90 »
    Looks like all the Jeskai lists that made results at that SCG run only SV apart from the pure control draw go list. I am still puzzled by the right number but probably I will give the original list another try. I have seen Rosum playing only SV i think this weekend at SCG.

    Interesting to see that no queller/geist midrange lists made it to top 32 in the SCG Open, despite it's popularity (~8% jeskai decks day 2). Brandon Dollaway ended 46th and Jonathan Rosum ended 65th. Only one jeskai in top 32 and that is a 4 snapcaster/1 Gearhulk list. The turning point for Rosum was when he tapped out for Pia and Kiran against Todd Stevens' GW Company, only to be punished by a six mana Elspeth on the other side of the table...
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from toroks »
    Quote from Davidalb »
    Does anyone play a more tappout version of this deck?
    Maybe one with chandra, torch defiance or master of waves or even a your pyromancer and monastery mentor build and some other non flash creatures.
    Since this deck does look more like a tempo deck.

    I like Young Pyromancer, which can be very good in builds now possible with 4 Serum visions + 4 Opt. Tapping out turn 2 for pyro is not as scary as tapping out turn 3 for geist against some punishing decks, like Storm. In value matchups pyro can be played later turns with mana up to generate tokens with some 1 mana spells before it's killed. Against decks with little removal, like company, elves etc. it can often take over the game competely.

    Just to add, now that most of us play 4 Spell Quellers that are vulnerable to removal, playing other vulnerable creatures (like pyromancers)to draw away the removal might not be such a bad idea. Before the time of Quellers, the deck was more resistant to removal, but that is no longer the case.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from Davidalb »
    Does anyone play a more tappout version of this deck?
    Maybe one with chandra, torch defiance or master of waves or even a your pyromancer and monastery mentor build and some other non flash creatures.
    Since this deck does look more like a tempo deck.

    I like Young Pyromancer, which can be very good in builds now possible with 4 Serum visions + 4 Opt. Tapping out turn 2 for pyro is not as scary as tapping out turn 3 for geist against some punishing decks, like Storm. In value matchups pyro can be played later turns with mana up to generate tokens with some 1 mana spells before it's killed. Against decks with little removal, like company, elves etc. it can often take over the game competely.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on MartyrProc- A Modern Control Deck (UPDATED!)
    Quote from Krazran »
    @Lear_the_cat

    I am used to play true control decks with 4 snaps and 30 instants. That means i am not used to have autolose matchup's. But that is how tron feels. Is there tech to deal with it?

    4 Ghost Quarters, Crucible of Worlds and Aven Mindcensor can help. Sideboard Stony Silence. Eldrazi creatures die to Wrath. Oblivion Ring etc. can answer planeswalkers, but All is dust and Oblivion Stone can be rough if you have many white permanents in play.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from TheAller »
    Quote from Eruza4 »
    Quote from TheAller »
    You need your lands. The correct number is 24, regardless of you running Opt or Serum Visions. You can only cut a couple of them if you run both cantrips at the same time.
    I'm actually feeling better with 6 cantrips and 23 lands than 24 lands and 4 cantrips. The electrolyze is the card that inboard out the most and really feel like i don't want more than 1. Sure when it hits those 2 for 1 I feel really good but that isn't something that happens often.


    6 cantrips and 23 lands is fine.

    What I was saying is that switching from SV to Opt doesn't change the number of lands you need, 24 remains the correct number, so regardless of which one of the two cantrips you play you're still in the same position in regard of lands.

    According to Frank Karsten, one scry counts as roughly 0,20 colored sources, whereas one card draw/cantrip counts as roughly 0,25 colored sources, so one Serum Visions in the deck will count as ~0,65 lands while one Opt in the deck will count as ~0,45 lands. [EDIT]That means you you can play ~0,8 (almost 1) less lands with a playset of Serum Visions compared to a playset of Opt.

    How to Account for Fetchlands, Mana Creatures, and Card Draw Spells?

    Basic lands are simple. A Plains counts as a white source, and a Forest counts as a green source. But what if (contrary to what I initially assumed) the deck contains non-land mana sources as well? The numbers in my tables should still act as good guidelines, but does a Birds of Paradise or Serum Visions count as a full colored mana source? A good rule of thumb is to count fragile mana producers (e.g., Birds of Paradise or Deathrite Shaman) as half a colored mana source, to count any cheap cantrip (e.g., Remand or Peek) as 0.25 colored sources, and to count any cheap scry card (e.g., Temples) as 0.2 colored sources.

    https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/

    From another angle, when you play Serum Visions you have information about 3 cards before you choose whether to bottom anything, while you only have information about 1 card when you play Opt, so you have a lot more information to make your best decision.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Soul Sisters
    I see some lists around that don't play Martyr of Sands and Serra Ascendant, like Frank Lepore's list and this one: https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/soul-sisters-decklist-by-stephen-stack-707511
    What are the pros and cons of it compared to the traditional Martyr of Sands/Serra Ascendant lists?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Opt has been disappointing in my testing. The main reason we started playing Serum Visions in the first place(we didn't use to when jeskai geist broke out in 2013-2014) was to make sure getting the mana right, and Opt just doesn't do a good job at that. Keeping one-landers with Opt is a very different thing than keeping one-landers with Serum Visions. I had hoped Opt could be kinda like the modern substitute for Brainstorm, but it just feels too weak.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Featured Thread -] WUR Delver
    Quote from Black_Dog »
    Quote from toroks »



    When I saw the Pyromancers, I thought he'd play Opt, but he didn't. Anyone been trying out some lists with Opt?


    If you play Delver of Secrets, Serum Visions is a far better card. Opt is more for Draw-Go or combo.
    Serum is a given, but I was thinking 8 cantrips.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Featured Thread -] WUR Delver
    Very cool to see Jeskai Delver did well at the SCG Modern Classic Dallas, with this deck at 11th place:

    Decklist here:


    When I saw the Pyromancers, I thought he'd play Opt, but he didn't. Anyone been trying out some lists with Opt?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    Supreme Verdict can be a nice emergency out to have against creature heavy decks that either have a risk of going too wide for our point removal or too big/resilient for our bolts, like against Eldrazi,Death's Shadow, Affinity, Merfolk, Zoo, white weenie, elves and other Company-decks, Merfolk, BGx, Bogles, maybe Living end.


    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    I'm more into dusk / dawn, engineered and staticaster in those lists, as they don't kill our creatures. I guess pyroclasm can work against swarm with queller's 3 toughness.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from TheAller »
    Quote from Eruza4 »
    I would call this thread simply jeskai. If you give a loot at jund or abzan the creatures and spells keep changing and adapting to the metagame but despite that the name of the deck remains the same.


    This.

    Quote from chaos021 »
    So it couldn't be that decks just change over time and with the metagame? I mean this is a pointless argument, but since we seem to like doing this here....


    Yea sure decks change over time but that's not the point I was making. The point I was making is the Harlan Firer type list is a "hybrid" and it's a different thing than the old midrangey Jeskai Geist. For that reason, it's not out of place here in this thread, nor in that one for the matter. It straddles the different archetypes. It's more controllish than a Geist list, but more tempoey/midrangey than a draw-go or Nahiri build. It's a middle way.

    So I also happen to think there should be 1 thread named "Jeskai" that should include all non-Saheeli lists.


    How are the new geist lists more "controlish" than, say, Vjeran Horvat's GP Prague winning list?:
    http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=6436&d=236995
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
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